What is the difference between drawing and design?
When working for a studio, does your personal aesthetic matter?
Are you thoroughly exploring your story ideas or are you stopping too soon?
What do Pixar’s Coco and The Shining have in common?
And how can you get out of your own head and bring more freedom to your creative process?
Today, Mentees from First Flight, our most recent Master Class at The Oatley Academy, join me for some Visual Development MYTHBUSTING…
Listen To The Episode:
[ download the mp3 ] [ subscribe in iTunes ]
Connect With The Students:
Say Hi!
As you can imagine, it takes a lot of guts to get on the mic in front of tens of thousands of artists from all over the world and share your heart like our students did in these interviews…
So I welcome you to post an encouraging comment or question for them and we’ll be here to engage throughout the week!
First of all, I just want to say I’m so happy to hear my OA friends’ beautiful voices, reminded me of the great time we had at CTN last year. Hi Dooz, Amie and Mathew 🙂
It was 1am when I saw another Artcast was posted, I started listening but could not stop. That was not my plan. I will not sleep well, thanks a lot.
In all seriousness, this one really struck a core with me. Pretty much everyone of you said something that really resonated. For a while I’ve felt stuck with my art, but since last CTN I started realizing what I needed to do to make my work better, and it’s clicking that it’s not anything technical, nor artistic inspiration. It has to do with bravery.
And that’s what Dooz, and Zach and Mathew said in their own ways. To be brave enough to take risks, because it’s riskier not to take them. Or like Zach said “to give yourself permission to fail”, for some reason when you phrase it like that, it makes more sense to me. Literally when I heard it, I wrote it down on a post-it note and slapped it on the first surface in front of me so I would be reminded of it.
I also liked what Amie said about drawing what you feel (which is also a risk) instead of what you think is correct. I love Amie’s drawings because of that.
So this year for me is gonna be not so much about technique (although not putting it off either) and more about learning to be more brave, fail a lot more, make my art more about what I feel and to be more myself in it.
I don’t have anything to ask because this was full of answers, but I’ll ask this ’cause I’m curious: In the mentorship, What part of the process was the most enjoyable for you? What were the most frustrating?
Sorry for my three page essay, this was a good one 🙂
Hi, Gabriel! Always a joy to hear from you, my friend 😀
So happy this episode resonated with you <3 It resonated with me as well. Just the other day I was feeling frustrated with my work, and then remembered what everyone said and felt re-energized and ready to tackle everything! 😉
Really love your resolution. Being brave and embracing failure is so important. I can't wait to see the work you create! You got this! Hug!!
Those were some really good points, I totally agree! I need to get “be brave and draw what you feel” tattooed on my forehead or something — but I suppose your way of doing it, sticking a post-it note to a visible surface in your art space is probably a better solution haha
Hi Gabriel! It was so nice to meet you at CTN this year. I’m so glad the podcast struck a chord with you. I just got to hear the other’s interviews this morning and Zach’s words resonated with me as well. I’m so glad I’m not the only one with inspirational post-its all over their desk! Haha, I’m looking at one right now that my roommate drew for me of a giraffe telling me to keep at it.
For me, the most enjoyable part of the mentorship (I worked with Jenn) were the conversations our group would have where a concept would just click for me. For example, we were talking about developing a style for a project and how the art team has to match that style. Jenn had us looking at some of Michel Breton’s artwork for Box Trolls. At one point Jenn said “Break it down to the simplest pieces. Look at one of Michel’s scratchy pen-line drawings, and then ask yourself, ‘How would Michel draw a circle?'” That really clicked for me. So exciting!
The most frustrating was maybe the most fun. Jenn had us doing studies from film stills to practice seeing in shapes. She suggested at one point that we take a black and white film and try to add color. OMG it’s SOOO HARD! After trying it a few times and then returning to my project I realized how garish I was making my colors and how I was missing out on all the subtlety that was working in the exercise. It was the good kind of frustrating 🙂
Good luck with your work Gabriel!
Hey Gabriel ! 😀
I’m ecstatic that it sounds like you’re on you way to some major break throughs!!! How exciting ! Thank you so much for your kind words as well. There’s so many lessons in this podcast by everyone. It really lends itself to kicking some major art butt haha. ( I was listening to this podcast at 3 am and was too inspired to sleep too I feel your pain !!! haha ) Amie’s expert about being authentic with your work really blew my mind as well !
I mentored with Chris and there were so many, “a-ha” moments I felt like I was in Oprah Winfrey’s live studio audience. The most enjoyable part was defiantly being able to have a mentor who accumulated professional life experience who you can bounce ideas off of. There’s no greater relief than being able to have someone who’s done it tell you if something is working or not. For example my characters were lacking not only designs but a soul. Chris made a really good point to cast the characters with celebrity actor references which really elucidated my designs.
The most frustrating portion was probably starting the project. There’s a lot of things to take into consideration when trying to set the tone for telling a story properly. You want there to be history and a real world feel all while trying to get the design dynamics to fit cohesively. As an avid over- thinker I found it to be really invigorating to work past that first hurdle with Chris and the group. There’s nothing you can’t do without a good support group am I right ?!
Hope this helps ! Best of luck with your future endeavors and hope to see you at CTNx sometime ! 😀
Ania
Yeah I do the same when I’m not feeling motivated haha, I listen to one of the artcasts 🙂
*HUGS!*
Mona
The irony is that I wouldn’t want that tattooed on my forehead, what if the guy messes it up?! That’s why I played it safe haha
Mathew
Yeah I don’t have enough of the inspirational post-its haha, but I do have art from artists I like on the wall, and it serves the same purpose.
And wow, sounds like Jenn really makes you break apart the work of other people so you can understand it better, which is exactly what you would want to be able to do for a Vis dev artist. I bet it’s a ton of hard work at least at first, but it also sounds super fun!
Zach
Haha night owls unite!
You know, I also have a hard time starting a project (well, starting things in general :P), and yes, definitively mentors help a toooon with that, with putting the fire under your butt and also to help you when you get stuck. The next best thing is having a community like this one 🙂
And well, I’m planning on going to CTN this year so, if you’re going then I guess I’ll see you there!
In fact hope I see y’all there this year!
Thank you so much for your comment, Gabriel! Everyone’s comments about failure were spot on. Something that really helped me change my attitude toward failure was doing some improv! Brian McDonald was teaching a class about story for animation and had us do improv exercises before almost every lecture. It was super uncomfortable at first, but I learned to get comfortable with failure very quickly. If you haven’t tried it before, it might be useful on your journey!
The most enjoyable part of the mentorship was making personal connections with Jenn and fellow students! Rather than just watching videos of Jenn looking at our work, we were actually able to speak with her and our peers in real time. This is such an invaluable aspect of the mentorship course and OA gets it so right. Did I mention the infectious positivity that the OA team exudes? Although I’m sure you already knew about that haha
The most frustrating thing was getting myself to post things and be present online. Jenn gave us so much great advice about putting yourself out there, but even after I’d been told those things it was still a struggle to get myself to post any work. I feel like I’ve just started to overcome this in the new year, but I’m starting to head towards a good place now!
Best of luck with your art and I’m excited to see the things you’ll make!
Hey Natalie! Didn’t see your comment until just now ^.^
OMG what you said about improv sounds like such a good idea, and I’ve considered doing it because I heard it helps with shyness, but have never actually done it, and now that you’re telling me that Brian McDonald had you do it must mean it works!
And yes, the tremendously positive energy that this community exudes is so much I can smell it through the computer haha.
About putting yourself out there, I know exactly what you mean, I have the same issue. I think for me, it’s because I’m concerned about the response of others, about it being ignored. But it’s a silly thing to put the value of your own self worth in the likes of a post, I know that. I guess the hard thing is to break that habit.
Thanks for the response! And good luck with your art as well! 😀
Hiya Gabe, good to hear from you again! Courage is so important. The more “safe” I try to be, the worse my work gets. The greats do not fear failure because they are old friends. We see their output and think they are simply immune to error. But the reality is, they’ve failed more times than most have ever tried. I find laughter takes the sting out of failure. Next time you really bomb an art project, have fun with it. It’s hard to be frightened when you’re laughing.
Hi Gabriel! It’s great to hear from you, it was nice getting to talk to you at CTN. Thank you so much for your thoughtful words, I was blown away by everyones answers and insights too. I know what you mean about allowing yourself more permission to fail and to be your own answer, that is such a powerful and thoughtful point Zach made.
There were so many things I was able to understand thanks to first flight. Getting the chance to see and listen to other students struggle with their problems and then seeing how they solved them in real time was really interesting. I was having difficulties with sameness of size with a lot of my characters because I was getting into too much detail too soon. I found with the help of Chris’s advice and another students critque that it’s easier to compare for sameness of size earlier in the sketching phase and to try making many variations of the same character by squashing or stretching different perportions. And of course having Chris be there for each step of the development process was so encouraging.
And the most frustrating thing is the same as Natalie and that was fully engaging. I’m the type of person to sit in the back and listen, but a mentorship is so much more when you actually engage with the people who are most likely struggling with the same things you are! Also making things more stream line for animation, the characters that are designed for movies and T.V shows need to be able to move but still have a unique appeal, I’m still trying to get an idea on how to accomplish that kind of style but still be true to what I like. 😀
Thank you so much again for the thoughtful message, you make me want to be brave too.
Best of luck with your art goals!
I’ll see you again at this year CTNX if your able to go
Hi guys, thanks for the interesting episode! I really enjoyed it 🙂
Something Natalie said really resonated with me, namely that you should try out projects you think you will enjoy (but don’t actually know for sure if you do). I’ve only recently had the epiphany that I want to take my art more seriously and it feels like I’m discovering interesting new playing grounds every week and for a while I was really anxious because I didn’t know what I should pursue. It also makes things like networking more difficult — I’ll need to get to know different people and processes and industries if I want to illustrate books rather than work as a character designer, for example.
But I decided to turn that around and instead of burning all my energy being stressed out, I’m currently coming up with little assignments and projects for myself in all those areas that interest me right now, because I’ll only know if I actually like working on something if I’ve tried it (which is a lesson I already learned when it comes to more “regular” jobs, but apparently didn’t automatically apply to other areas in my life).
I also have a question to anyone who feels like replying, and I know there is no single (or any) correct answer, but I like having a general clue about what I’m in for, so to speak. One thing I’ve gleaned by listening to your podcast(s) is that designing, say, a character for an animated series takes a lot of trial and error. I would really be interested in a sort of ballpark figure — how many design attempts does it take to arrive at the good stuff? 10? 20? 50? I know that the only real answer to that question is “it takes as long as it needs”, but it’s all so very vague to me.
I’m asking partly because a friend of mine hired me to design a couple of characters for her project (we’re both aspiring creative people, so it’s all very informal) and she basically picked one of the first designs (because she really loved it), and here I was, prepared to try out a lot of different things. So that experience didn’t really give me a proper impression of what it’s like to work as a character designer for somebody else. I mean, sure, you might get lucky but the way you’ve described the work makes it sound really different to this single experience of mine.
I suppose I’m just really interested in having a realistic view of what it would take to do the job for a studio or commercial client. Maybe I should rephrase the question slightly: how many tries did your longest character design adventure take?
I’d be really happy about any pointers you may give me!
Thanks in advance,
Mona
Hi, Mona!
Thank you so much for your comment 🙂 It’s so exciting that you’re coming up with projects to explore different options! I remember when I first started thinking about art as a career, I was sure I wanted to do concept art for games. After trying a little bit of everything, I discovered a burning passion for children’s books! <3
And I don't work in the animation industry, but the last time I explored character design for my children's book project, I filled many pages with quick explorations, until I decided on a couple to take further. I don't know how many they were, but I gave myself two weeks to explore as many options as I could - so I made plenty! 🙂
I feel you! I also started out thinking concept art for games would be The Thing for me, but so many other things are interesting too, so WE’LL SEE haha
Thank you so much for your input, that already gives me some idea of how to approach this. Strangely enough, it’s your mindset that sounds the most helpful to me (or maybe not so strangely, if you think about it). As in, your decision to give yourself a certain time frame to explore your options. Usually there are time constraints involved anyway and it’s personal projects which make it look like time is an endless supply. But if you want to get something done, setting yourself time limits is probably just as helpful as narrowing down the numbers of paintings/pages etc. Thank you, Ania! 🙂
So happy to be helpful, Mona! 😀 HUG!
*HUG*
Hi Mona ^__^
Natalie is wise indeed. I think giving yourself small sampler projects is a great idea! I can remember a few years ago I was really interested in animation and I was thinking hard about singing up for a 2 year program in 3D animation. I was so nervous to make such a big commitment. My friend suggested I just take a small weekend class online to try it out first. I really enjoyed the class, but the main thing I learned was that 3D animation was nothing like what I thought, and I didn’t really enjoy the process. Dipping my toe in like that let me get a feel for it by giving it an honest try without investing too much. Plus it taught me more about what I do like and what directions I should try next.
My one piece of advice would be to try your best to see your little projects through to a finish, and then come back and make your assessments. Trying something new is always going to be a little frustrating or uneasy so sometimes in the thick of things it can be hard to distinguish “this is hard for me right now” from “I don’t want to do this”.
Thank you so much for taking the time to reply 🙂
That *is* a very good point! And maybe, on top of that, finish a few different projects and compare the things I enjoyed or disliked or found hard about each process before making a decision. Figure out what project I liked better than others and explore that area more deeply.
Oh, and I forgot about your question! (and it’s a great one).
I’ve had that same experience working with clients where they see the first thing I drew and they fall in love with it. And sometimes that first thing really was the best design I came up with. But I feel like if I don’t make an honest try at exploring a lot of options then I don’t know if there wasn’t something else even better waiting in the wings.
I do the same thing Ania does, I give myself a time limit and try as many things in that period as I can. I also try and spread it over a few days (preferably a week or more) so that I can come back to it with fresh eyes a few times. Then at the end of that time period I pick out the ones that look promising.
You can see some of the development sketches I did for my main character for Jenn’s mentorship here (scroll down a bit): http://alsoalso.squarespace.com/artwork/2017/10/alphabet-soup
Those are just the cleaned up sketches I presented in class to get feedback. There were dozens and dozens more that were not working at all. But even though they weren’t solutions, they helped me trim away options and reassured me that I had throughly explored things. Figuring that character out was about 2 weeks of work.
I hope that’s helpful!
Something Chris said during the class also came to mind. He was showing us raw sketches he had done of pigs for one of his Animal Farm paintings. He said that he started by drawing pigs from observation (always the best place to start) but then he would start to push and pull things – exaggerate this or minimize that.
He said he knew he had gone far enough with an idea when the drawing didn’t look like a pig anymore. That’s where the drawing “broke”. Then he would back up from that and try and find the pig in there again. By pushing things as far as he could to find out where they broke he came up with some really novel looking designs for his pigs.
That sounds like a very cool and useful exercise! Chris did mention taking the art to the point where it breaks during the episode, but I didn’t quite understand what he meant by that haha
Thank you for being so helpful!
Great point Matthew. Chris’s method of “pushing things till they break” has always reminded me of running track. My coach once told me I had a habit of stopping right at the finish line. When you do that, you loose an incredible amount of momentum because you start slowing down during the race itself. The solution is to aim past the finish line and go farther than you think you need to. Dont stop too soon and don’t play it safe. That last 10% can be what does – or doesn’t – make your art look professional.
(I never got better at track, but it’s a helpful metaphor nonetheless.) 😀
Thank you for chipping in, that is a great metaphor! I’ll take it to heart and keep pushing 🙂
I had a quick look at your link, and man, not only do I really love your art, but the things you share about your process look really helpful. Thank you for sharing that with me!
This one project that I worked on was a very spur of the moment ‘can you do this in a week’ sort of thing and since my “client” is one of my best friends there was a daily back and forth of sketches I sent her and changes she wanted me to make. But your reply also gave me the additional advice that maybe I should let myself explore the designs a bit before ‘submitting’ them for perusal (which I would have done if the client had been a stranger, but it’s something to consider for any design project, I think). It’s amazing how much I’ve already learned by just doing this simple project for a friend. One really does learn the most when trying to solve a problem!
That’s so great to hear Mona! And thanks for you kind words.
You’re right. Every project is different and sometimes (probably most of the time) we’d like a lot more time to polish something than the deadline will allow. It sounds like you handled it well.
Hi, Mona! So happy to hear you found the interviews relatable 🙂 I’m pretty new to visual storytelling myself, and definitely still trying out various things to see where I want to go career-wise.
To answer your question about iterating on designs, I don’t there is a specific number to shoot for because every situation is going to be different. That being said, I typically shoot for a minimum of 20 different iterations.
What Matthew said about the need to explore all of your options, even if you or your client has already found one they like, is the right mindset. It’s possible the first design you create will end up being the one that’s chosen, but that doesn’t mean further exploration is a waste of time. If nothing else, more iterations will tell you what does and doesn’t work in the design. I’ve heard Chris say you should always make time for another re-design because you have nothing to lose by taking another pass at it! The previous designs won’t disappear, and there’s always something to learn from it. I’d say keep exploring as long as the time constraints of the project allow, and it is important to set some parameters on that because you don’t want to be stuck in the same project for too long trying to make it absolutely perfect, especially when you’re just starting out like me.
I hope this was helpful!
Hi Natalie, thank you so much for replying!
It sounds so obvious now that you’ve put it into words, but for some reason it didn’t occur to me before. I can just…*keep designing*, even if a particular design was already picked. That’s especially true for my friend’s project because just today, she expressed interest in further collaboration, so there is definitely room and time to explore more options.
It’s very helpful to learn some strategies from someone who is new(ish) to this 🙂 Thank you!
Hey Mona ! 😀 Thank you so much for your comment! I totally agree with everything Ania, Matt, and Natalie said ! My client list is still in the beginning phases so I don’t have too much reference to pull from other than mostly my personal experiences, but I found it really great to dedicate sketchbook pages for your designs. I found it really nice to have phases to your explorations.
Chris actually talked about this in the mentorship and the lessons about switching up mediums to hit that brain refresh. So dedicating time to preliminarily sketches in a none dominant medium alongside setting a personal deadline (like Ania said) really helps you come to better informed answer! Push the design until it breaks ( like Matt said) is so key and switching up mediums can really help aid that ! 😀
Everyone said such wise things already so I hope I’m not beating a dead horse . Hope this helps <3 best wishes !!!!
I never thought about switching to a different medium during the design stage, I tend to stick to my strengths (which is sketching with pencil) in order to come up with good stuff, but I *do* sometimes get stuck that way. Thank you for the additional pointers, Zach!
Everything everyone else said!!!
Wow this is great stuff, I’m on the same page as Zach, since my client list is just starting too I’m not sure how much advice I can give.
I like to fill up many blank printer pages with exploratory sketches and studies aimed towards the character I’m designing (I find printer pages to be the best for this kind of stuff so that I don’t have to worry when I do make bad drawings and can easily move on.)
For how many drawings I do that can range from 10 to 20 or more when i’m trying to design and get a feel for the character.
Recently I’ve been trying to develop some mushroom characters for a friend and I’m still in the exploratory zone after a month and a half. Having a time limit of 2 weeks mentioned by Ânia is such a great idea. I find that I could easily stay in the exploratory sketchy pencil zone forever otherwise.
Another great thing about what Chris said is that after breaking a design you can always go back to your original ideas. Even when you have something you really like there could be an even better design choice if you keep pushing.
I’m still trying to figure out what I like too in regards to a career, its great to hear you have a bunch of project ideas and plans in the making!
Thank you for the comment, hope this helped a bit.
Hi Amie, thanks for your reply! 🙂 I’ve also started using printing paper during the design stage, I feel like I am much freer and less worried about making mistakes. My go-to medium is watercolor which obviously needs different paper, so that means that no matter what I design on printing paper, I’ll have to redo it anyway at a later stage.
Thanks for giving me an insight into your process!
I just finished listening to it! (I gasped out loud when I saw the thumb with Zach’s art and clicked instantly). This was so exciting to hear and full of SO much great advice! Now I want to be in a mentorship even more! *_* I definitely relate to FF changing my views on what a good picture is and about giving yourself permission to fail… everything in this resonated with me in one way or another really.
What Matthew said about keeping things loose and not getting stuck with technique was especially interesting… lately I notice myself overthinking (and eventually overworking) ideas, sometimes it even gets in the way of finishing them, so it’s important to remember that it’s the story and the feeling of the picture that matters and not focusing on perfection. Definitely another of the big lessons of First Flight!
It’s amazing to see how much FF has helped everyone and I’m so happy and proud of the flyers in this episode, thanks for that awesome advice! ♥
Thanks for posting, Mari!
Agreed on all counts – Zach’s art is gasp-worthy and Matthew’s insights were a great reminder…
So glad you loved First Flight! Seems like everyone involved really had a blast. …makes me so happy.
Mari, I always love seeing your posts in the FF group (they are amazing). You are such a hard worker and always have great comments for people. I think a big reason First Flight is such a great experience is the community experience you and the others all provide.
I’m glad my comment rang true for you.
Mari you’re such a constant source of positive energy !! Thank you so much for your kind words and simply being you <3
Good insight Mari. Worrying about the “right” way to do things can be the death knell for creativity. Some of the most unique artists out there got flack for “doing things the wrong way.” Mistakes can be a blessing in disguise because they take you to uncharted territory. It might be a dead end, or you might strike gold. You won’t know unless you explore. 🙂
I loved the episode and the insights the students provided. Each of them are a proof of how accelerated your learning and course-correction abilities can be when you have the right mentor who’s invested in your growth. Lots to think about- I’ll definitely be coming back to this 🙂
Thanks for sharing, Ramya!
While working on this episode, I’ve been thinking about the mentors in my life and really appreciating how much time they saved me and, as Zach mentioned on the episode, how their faith in me inspired me to achieve more than I ever would have considered on my own. Here’s to great mentors!
It’s nice to think how things like the internet and schools like the Oatley Academy make it so much easier to find those mentors and connect people with skills who want to share with others who want to learn them.
Listening to Zach, Dooz, Amie, and Natalie I realized how much I’ve learned from talking with them during the course. It makes you think about what skills you might have that you might not even realize are skills, but which you could share with someone else. Even if it’s just a young sibling or a neighbor or a friend at work.
It’s funny, I can vividly remember a handful of encouraging comments made by mentors in my life that drastically altered my life’s projection.
Good point Matthew – it never ceases to amaze me how everyone’s skill sets are always different. There are some areas where I’m dreadfully inadequate and my OA friends help out because they can see what I don’t. But sometimes I can help others, too! We all have different strengths and it’s a boon to elevate each other’s work.
Oh man guys this was such a dense and rich interview. I feel kinda like the boa constrictor that swallowed the elephant in The Little Prince.
I may have to lay here for a few days before I can produce a coherent comment. so… many…things …struggling…….to focus..on…one…….~collapses in a coma of information fullness
Haha! I felt the exact same way, John! These artists are so brilliant and charming! It was pure joy to create this episode with them.
Cheers for another Little Prince fan! It’s one of my very favorite books. Have you seen the amazing animated film that came out a a couple years ago?
Only about 10 times
First…I miss OA Friends, but I’ll be back soon =D
One thing I listened to this podcast and it has been part of my life last months is that you need to do something rather than do nothing. I mean. Many of us have great ideas but we procrastinate a lot thus we lost time and many opportunities.
So, I’ve studied a lot and after a workshop with a great Brazilian illustrator who said “It’s better to have a project to show rather than some random illustrations, thus you can show to the animation studios (yes, I want to work in an animation studio) you can work with different parts of the projects” I am very engaged to finish an old project I have because I think I can develop many competencies.
I know, I am a little bit lazy, but if I want to reach my target I need to change and doing this I’ve learned a lot about the process. So I am improving my character design abilities, my color composition and most important, I can distinguish what is pure design and what is art. Because sometimes you need to do things that you don’t like so much, and now I know, design a character or an environment, or some other thing it’s normal to feel pain, to use more your brain to really discover the best option to your idea and you know, it’s necessary to accomplish the project, but it requires discipline, patience, and self-knowledge.
I have a long, long way forward, but if I can say one thing about this journey is, even you need to reduce your speed along the way, don’t stop and keep going toward your goals enjoying the “landscape around you” and use every second to think about what you really love to do. Listen to what your heart says about you really need to do and try to turn it in a good experience for you and the people near you.
It sounds like you’ve been doing a lot of thinking about your goals Marcio. I really like what you said about turning your efforts into something good for you and the people near you. Thanks for sharing some of your journey.
I heard recently someone talking about their efforts to exercise more and get rid of their out of shape body. They said they were really struggling with going to the gym, like their body was fighting them.
Their friend say, “Well yeah, no wonder. You get up every day and tell your body you want to get rid of it and replace it with something new and better. Of course it’s fighting to stay!”
The friend said that the key was making the process about loving who you are, listening to yourself, and improving you rather than replacing you.
It sounds like you’re on a similar track. I hope your project goes well!
The struggle to overcome ourselves and become better artists never goes away. Often times the hurdles that trip us up time and time again are constantly the same just sneaking in to our sub conscience in different “disguises”. After fifteen plus years in the industry, I constantly feel like I start again and again. To all the people who spoke on the podcast. Thank you for talking about your struggles. Thank you for talking about how you have overcome them. And just because you may be new to the industry you are just as much a inspiration as any veteran! Great podcast everyone! Thank you!
Wow Benjamin, I was just looking through some of the work on your web site. I’m so impressed with how much character and acting you can get in those highly graphic and streamlined designs. That’s something I’ve really struggled with in the past.
It’s heartening to know that someone with your experience still has those feelings. And to know you feel like you start over again and again. It makes me think I’m at least on the right track. Thanks for the encouragement!
I’m curious, what sort of work did you set your goals on when you first started your career? And is that still where your sights are set?
Thank you so much for your encouragement, Benjamin! I’m still so new to the industry, but I can feel this happening on a small scale already. I remember seeing some students featured in a past OA article and thinking ‘They must be so on top of things and have it all figured out!’ It’s surreal to see the other side and begin to realize that all of the people I look up to still share similar feelings of self-doubt at times.
I’m so glad you enjoyed the podcast and I’m looking forward to many more years of struggle! Thank you again!
Thanks for sharing Benjamin. It’s so encouraging to hear that.
Just like middle school, we as artists are often convinced that everyone else has things figured out. Only with time and maturity do we realize everyone else is as confused as we are!
Thank you so much Benjamin for opening up and talking about your experience. It’s incredibly reassuring to hear someone who is as established as yourself going through the same notions of a lot of us newbies. There does always seem to be a parallel with similar problems manifesting and recurring. The struggles obviously have not won on your account however because your work is absolutely stunning !
Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts and experience! Also thank you so much for your very kind words it means the world !
Hi Benjamin thank you so much for sharing. It’s reassuring in a way to know that these feelings of reinventing yourself are completely normal. It’s a great reminder that to keep growing as an artist and a person there is always going to be some form of struggle that comes along with it.
Great podcast with great people from the community. Love hearing all the insight everyone has and helps as a reminder as we work on our own projects.
People in general seem to have an aversion to the word failure, yet that’s how we learn and grow, if you’re afraid to fail you’re afraid to grow.
As echoed by everyone …..be brave, take chances and do it
Hope to see everyone again at CTN this year.
Thanks, Rich! You’re part of what makes OA great, too!
I couldn’t agree more about people’s attitude towards failure. If you aren’t willing to risk the possibility of making a bad drawing, it’s unlikely you’ll produce a good one.
Hope to see you around Seattle soon!
Thanks Rich! You got it right, fear no failure! 😀
I love how you worded that Rich ! Growth and failure should always be used in the same sentence ! Thank you for your very kind words ! 😀
GREAT artcast! I feel like each artist had some nugget of what they learned that applies to the work I’m trying to do right now. Thanks, Chris, and thanks to the artists for putting yourselves out there. This was really helpful.
So good to know the episode was helpful, Seth! Thanks for the encouragement!
Thank you Seth !!! I’m so glad this helped. Rooting for you !
Thanks Natalie, I’m sure we’ll see each other around soon, so where do we listen to your music?
Haha I’m not a composer, and I mostly play with a local community orchestra. Unfortunately, there are licensing issues with recording most of the pieces we play, so I don’t have anything you can listen to 🙁
This is my first time leaving a comment and english is not my first language so I’m a bit shy but listening to this ArtCast was really great. It’s great to learn from industry professionals but sometimes listening to people who are some steps ahead of you is really inspiring and puts advice into perspective if that makes sense?
Especially the thing about focusing on your portfolio hit home for me. I’m getting my Graphic Design degree this summer but I’m sure that’s not what I want to do for the entirety of my life. So I’ve been in this head space of needing to work for my portfolio and filling it with certain types of work so I could turn in the best thing possible – but I got stuck. I think I’ll start working on a project some more from now on. I always felt like I’m not qualified to try serious concepts for a movie because of my skill level, as if I have to get some sort of certification to even start…
So really, thank you. This helped a lot!
Thank you for your comment, Nadja!
So happy the episode is helpful. You’re right, Natalie’s insight is eye-opening. It really inspired me to work more on my projects too!
PS: Your English is great! What is your main language?
Hi Nadja! It’s nice to meet you. I’m so glad you found the podcast helpful. And you’re English is quite impressive. I wish I could speak another language as well as you are writing English.
You said you are studying graphic design, but that you have an interest in visual development. I was very similar. I studied computer science in school before I started my art career. It used to feel like other people who had started with their art earlier were ahead of me. But I’ve come to realize that the experiences and special skills I learned in computer science are now unique skills that help me to solve visual problems in a way that other people don’t.
Do you ever feel like you use some of the things you’re learning as a graphic designer as kind of a special extra skill to make your art stand out ?
Thank you for sharing and your kind words Nadja. 🙂 You can do anything with enough focus! I’m rooting for you !!!
It was great to hear all your perspectives on the mentorship! Wishing you guys the best 🙂
So glad to know you enjoyed the episode! <3 The guests are indeed inspiring 😉
Thank you!
That’s so kind of you. Thank you for the good wishes. Wishing you inspiration and success in return. ^___^
Thank you so much you’re so kind ! 😀 Wishing you the best as well 🙂
Just. Wow. The level each year is going through the roof! Soon we’ll run out of atmosphere!!
I’m so glad to be coming back each time to find a podcast full of interesting tidbits and courageous advice.
Something I had to learn by making mistakes (and still feel I’ve so much ground to cover!) is the drawing vs design aspect of production design. Everyday I marvel at my art heroes and their wonderful techniques, but then realise that they simply would not work in our particular project. It’s a constant battle between trying to make something pretty to impress peers vs making something useful for us to put in our game.
Lately I have started using reference in a different way to combat this. Instead of looking for the literal thing I want to draw – Say, for example, a chair with a fluffy cat on it) – I look for the thematic idea, or design, I want to transmit – In the previous example, I’d look for ways people use to recline on chairs and then adapt the animal, or find out what makes a cat fluffy.
I think I’ll be giving a second listening to this podcast later this week, I feel it’s the best way to absorb all the knowledge contained in it!! 🙂
Thanks to all who collaborated, this is truly inspiring. 🙂
Juan, that’s a really insightful tip.
I like the way it refocuses you from just copying what you are seeing into thinking about the message you are trying to communicate.
Thanks for sharing!
Thank you for commenting and sharing your kind words Juan ! 😀 I agree, you’re really hitting it out of the park with that design vs drawing ideology!
Great episode with some very thoughtful insights. One line that stood out for me was “give yourself permission to be your own answer.” Such a powerful statement. It’s very easy to always look outside of ourselves for an answer, but it takes another level of confidence and maturity to dive within ourselves and search for answers.
Thanks for another great podcast!
I loved that part too! Everyone had more than one great soundbite. Thanks for sharing, Ricardo! Glad you liked the show!
Thank you all for a wonderful episode!! You all are so inspiring. Your works are beautiful! I am looking forward to seeing where you guys will go with your careers. First Flight was an amazing course. Seeing everyone’s posts made me want to do more with my own art.
So glad you liked the episode, Melissa! So proud of these specific artists and the “Flyers” in general (you included).
Melissa, thank you so much for the kind words.
So glad we have a community like OA where we can all inspire each other.
Holy Guacamole!
You artists are amazing. Even after years in the aniamtion industry, I feel humble to look at your fantastic art.
Thanks for your insights and keep inspiring us!
~Scott
Scott!
I love guacamole!!!
😀
You are too kind. So glad you enjoyed the podcast. I’m humble just have the chance to be in the company of such talented and extraordinarily generous people.
Thank you so much, Scott! Your words are so encouraging to us, and I’m so inspired by your work. I’m happy to be part of this community and spread the love!
Yes, this is definitely the best community I’ve been able to find online! Hugs all around!
Thank you so so much Scott !!! 😀
Wow! You guys are stunning. I don’t know why, I had tears in my eyes when Chris was talking about Coco. His pure love for storytelling and teaching reflects in everything. And that itself is again inspiring.
Many thanks to Chris,the OA team and all the artists. 🙂
Thank you so much, Madhavi! Chris is a beautiful person and Coco is a beautiful film. I couldn’t agree with your comment more <3
Thank you so much, Madhavi ! 😀 I second what Natalie said. Chris and Coco are both beautiful things that are going on in the animation industry!
Your feedback means the world, wishing you the best ! 🙂
Thank you so much for this fantastic podcast guys, it really came at a time when I needed it most My dream is visual development and I am currently a junior year illustration major at Pratt Institute, but the school focuses so much on editorial work here and I am worried that I am very behind in the concept art field… I haven’t had the chance to do any environments, props, or character design but switching majors or schools is not an option. I’ll probably got to grad school in California to make it up… We spend so much time intensively churning out editorial pieces and such here that I have no time for personal art where I just want to practice visdev (and I already don’t have a social life..) Is there any way that I can demonstrate visual development in my work/assignments without formal training? Sadly I cannot take any industrial design classes, animation drawing classes, or anything like that (I have spoken to the career departments, academic advisors, and and teachers to confirm this) I feel that I’m m missing a lot and I will definitely be taking summer courses at Oatley academy, but I’m wondering what I can do in the meantime during the school year… Thank you!
Yikes, so sorry for all the typos! My phone is behaving terribly!
Thank you for sharing your comment and being emotionally honest in your question, Audrey. Hopefully I can bring you comfort by saying that I couldn’t afford art school and have been taking online classes (primarily at the Oatley Academy). I can vouch that you will be able to learn almost everything you need here with this never ending supportive community.
I’m technically a third year myself and have friends who are in the same predicament as you, so know you’re not alone <3 If I were to throw in my two cents, I would suggest perhaps making your projects cohesive by picking a story to correlate them with. You could then create separate asset pages displaying your designs from the editorial piece. I would also suggest buying a bunch of art of books. Try to see where you could see yourself in visual development. Once you know where you want to position yourself (environment, character, and or prop design) only then will you really start to hit the ground running.
School and trying to find your way is super stressful but know you're in the right direction by asking yourself these questions ! 🙂 Hope this helps and wishing you the best <3
Hi Audrey,
I can relate to the spot you are in. And I would echo what Zach is saying 100%.
I studied engineering for 6 years before I came to art, and I also felt like I was really behind my peers. But I’ve found that the skills I learned in engineering have been really helpful for me as an artist – things like problem solving skills and work ethic.
You are getting the same thing in your illustration program, especially one as rigorous as Pratt, and those are all things that will serve you well in VisDev too. Frankly, having some of those outside skills are going to put you ahead of the game compared to others who just studied visdev from the start.
So are your program goes forward, look for opportunities in your classes and assignments to strengthen skills that will be useful to you later – figure drawing, perspective, color, painting. I would also pay special attention to business skills like working with clients, contracts, etc. Being good at those things will be a huge help to your ability to freelance as a VisDev artist.
I studied Illustration at the University of Kansas, and our program was also largely aimed at editorial work. But I knew I was interested in the animation industry so I talked to my professors about it, and they were very open about helping me. I would suggest you do the same. Teachers (the ones worth your time) LOVE a student who is motivated and interested i something more than anything else and I am sure they would be more than happy to help you find ways to practice the skills you want to learn as part of your assignments.
The one big skill that is a part of any VisDev work and that Chris really emphasizes is storytelling. No matter if you’re making characters or props or storyboards or background, the job is to make designs that tell a story. That’s something that you can be practicing in your editorial illustration work right now. Let your professors and your critique groups know that’s an area you want to work on, and they can help you exercise and strengthen that muscle.
I hope that helps Audrey. And thank you for sharing your story. I think you are really well situated to have an amazing set of visdev tools for your future.
Brilliant episode !!! Thank you guys for sharing.
This ep is so much like the mentorship was : honest and fun.
Zach <3 and Matthew insights are timely reminders.
Hi from Canada!
this podcast really struck a chord with me. I have long been fascinated by visual development, but don’t feel like I have the “art chops” and other than drawing I don’t even know how or where to start developing the skill set and learn paint and colour and all the other stuff haha. this mentorship seems like it might fit the bill, but I’m unclear how it works. is it classroom-based or online?
is it a course for more advanced art souls? and finally, what kind of work can one do to prep for a course like this? I really appreciated all the artist’s honesty in the interview as I made me realize that some of my roadblocks are of my own devising, and I’m all about breaking down roadblocks dukes of hazard style!
Hi, Rob! 😀
Thank you so much for your comment and questions, I’d love to help!
First Flight is an online workshop that runs for 5 weeks; you can attend it from anywhere in the world (I’m in Portugal!). Students access their lessons (audio and video recordings), PDFs and other course materials through The Oatley Academy website, and get to keep their content forever – or at least as long as The Oatley Academy exists. …which we all hope will be forever.
We also offer a mentorship add-on, that is also held online. The mentorship groups are smaller, so you can ask questions and get direct feedback from your mentor.
The Personal Mentorship for First Flight is open to all skill levels. We’d love to have you next time we open the course for enrollment 🙂
In the meantime, you could join our subscription courses to keep working on your art and stories with the support of our passionate and positive community: http://oatleyacademy.com/all-courses/
Please feel free to email us at [email protected] with any questions that you have, we’d love to help you!
Hi thanks for the reply and apologies for the delayed reply! I’ll fire an email to address you offer with any filirther questions :).
Kind regards
Rob!
Further*. My phone decided to have a conniption
Thank you so much, Rob! 😀 Please do. We’d love to help you in any way we can.
PS: My phone has those all the time, haha!