“Art is a system. I think as you mature, it’s natural that if you start to pay attention to business, you’ll start to approach that systematically as well.”
– Sean Hodge
Conducting creative business on the Internet is a relentless test of endurance.
The fight for attention in this crowded, noisy market is exhausting and often discouraging.
Should you Tweet or Tumblr? Send an email newsletter or old school postcards?
Do you even care?
Most artists I know would rather spend their limited time and energy perfecting their craft, not gesticulating for gigs…
In this interview, freelance expert Sean Hodge, editor for Freelance Switch and Tuts+ Business, shares some practical perspective to simplify your self-promotion and evolve your freelance illustration career…
Listen To The Interview:
Read the transcript for this episode here.
“When you build a business, you’re building one component at a time. You don’t have to be everywhere on day one… Just get good at this one component, then move on to the next phase of your business… Like little Lego blocks, build up this house over time.”
– Sean Hodge
Episode Highlights
- How to build a reputation through consistency, relevancy, and genuine, professional relationships.
- Where to focus your social media efforts.
- Tips on freelance illustration pricing.
- Should you accept royalties as payment?
” The point is to make real relationships. Reach out to people (whether you’re best-friendsies or it’s just a professional relationship) The more of those you have, that’s just killer! Those are the things that really drive your career forward, and it just makes everything more fun.”
– Sean Hodge
Awesome Links:
The Death Of Freelance Illustration (As We Know It)
Share Your Thoughts…
Sean Hodge, challenged us to begin thinking of a freelance illustration career as a “microbusiness.”
…a blend between client work and entrepreneurial personal projects.
Are you inspired by this paradigm shift or intimidated?
What action should professional and aspiring illustrators take to thrive in this evolving industry?
Please share your thoughts in the comments below…
Thanks for this great and informative podcast, I enjoyed listen to it. The new Q&A seems to be a nice idea and I liked how you approached it, I’ll looking forward to the next episode.
Best regards
Chris
Thanks, buddy.
We actually have TWO new segments. We’ll introduce the second in the next episode.
Considering how much I love surprises, the idea of often featuring surprise guests on my show is almost too much excitement for my brain to take…
Thanks again for the encouragement.
Another spot-on discussion. For several months I have been mired in the anxiety and futility of trying to hit every market and social medium simultaneously, as you guys described. The effort is genuine but being spread out over 4-5 networks leaves the attempt to generate interest in my work feeling contrived and impersonal.
At the same time, the “Process” of developing one avenue at a time and systematically incorporating more as your business evolves seems like solid advice but the fear of total anonymity and contemporary antiquity is a constant companion and the temptation to give into impatience is difficult to ignore. The idea of being in the right place at the right time is enough to turn someone into a neurotic, 60hr-per-week compulsive social-networker… or in my case, begin to recoil from what feels overwhelmingly like a fundamentally shallow pursuit to begin with, to the unfortunate detriment of my career.
Having these ideas dragged into the light is important, I often consider them but they exist mostly in a semi-comprehensible sub-conscious form, hearing them being dissected aloud by professionals with years of hands-on experience does a lot to lend credence to the solutions suggested.
So, I’ll take a page from this Artcast and try to limit the breadth of my networking pursuits and strengthen the content and person-ability of my most effective venues. I think it will feel more sincere and be less overwhelming. Its like a good dessert, all the sweetness and half the fat. (Chris, you have a responsibility as the community leader to do something better with that analogy.)
Thanks for the great show, guys and gal. Looking forward to part 2.
Ryan
Insightful and hilarious, Ryan.
One quick tip that may or may not be helpful: You can post to FB, G+ and Twitter at the same time using Buffer.
That can help you still get content out to those platforms without having to focus on all three simultaneously.
As an example, I haven’t focused on G+ like… EVER.
But I’m still posting to it so there’s something there when I have time and energy to begin figuring it out.
I have a plan to begin developing a G+ strategy in the relatively near future but I haven’t scheduled it yet. …so it probably won’t happen until I do.
But the point is, while I’m still posting content and I still check in from time to time in an attempt to begin to gain an understanding of what it’s all about, G+ isn’t a priority right now.
Hey Ryan,
The “fear of fear anonymity,” is tough—no doubt. Whatever advice we give probably won’t make that fear go away. The fear is just part of the journey. There’s no way around it. It’s something to get comfortable with. Set up a couple lawn chairs, invite fear over to sit next to you, and chat over a couple beers 🙂
It’s not shallow to get deeply involved in communities online. If you’re feeling uncomfortable tweeting, etc. that’s fine. It is an odd thing to do at first and feels weird when you don’t get responses.
At first it’s best to present yourself professionally through your own site and connect one to one with peers. Then reach out to art and design communities. These are places you could genuinely help people, share art tips, and build real friendships. The fans and people following you are built on top of those real relationships; they rarely precede them.
I’d rather see young artists get deeply involved in communities like Deviantart, Chris’s site here, or a similar one, participate in groups, work together to collectively learn and promote each others work. That will feel genuine, and like your part of something bigger, and that’s a foundation that will serve you long term.
Twitter, G+, etc. will just potentially enhance these real pursuits you’re doing, help get your message out with broader reach. It’s okay to grow into feeling comfortable with using these tools though. It’s not something you need to master in a week.
Similar to Chris, I haven’t focused much at all on G+. Blogging/participating in design and illustration sites was where I made the majority of my connections in the industry.
Wonderful artcast! Once again, a great and inspiring way to start the day. Thank you to everyone, Sean, Oats, wing leaders. This was fantastic. Got me thinking a lot. One thing that wasn’t mentioned though, was the value of face to face relationships. I am a designer/illustrator, working on a graphic novel. Two months ago, I joined a writers group (mostly to help with my graphic novel script). But I haven’t even been in very long and I have three requests for illustrations (with good pay!)
I think going to where the people are is extremely valuable, yet often overlooked. Face to face relationships, going to a coffee shop, art gallery, collaborating with artists in your area, is monumental. I was deathly scared of going to writers group because I thought I am not a writer. I faced that fear. And when I read my story, I received no reaction. No good, no bad reaction. Nothing. It was awful. But what I did receive was strength to continue. And I got that from face to face relationships.
Great great great point, Britny.
So true, Britny! I need to rejoin my old writing group(haven’t been there for the last few months due to my struggles for getting routine and working things out). However, I will be joining a local illustration and writing guild. I was nervous going, but when I let them see some of my illustrations, they were quite pleased with them and I felt better as I thought my illustrations were sub-par. Though, before I join my old writing group again at Panera Bread, I will finish up the script(with some rough pages) for my fan comic experiment so that I make up for not coming by bringing a pretty polish piece. Though, I got to get over that same speaking fear… Even though I am actually a pretty alright writer.
Great point Britney.
Also, great to see that your group meetings led to work offers. And powerful story on the dealing with ‘silent feedback’. It’s one thing to post something online; it’s a whole other thing to read in front of a room of people.
I’ve certainly benefited from meeting people at conferences. Face to face makes relationships deeper and more meaningful. Even if you have an online friend, if you meet for real, it makes for a greater connection. Anyone that can get to coworking spaces, conferences, or participate in face-to-face groups is well worth pursuing, as you mention. It makes you feel part of a vibrant scene.
I found this really insightful. A few months ago, I found that a huge portion of my time was being focused on going to all of the different art networking sites. It quickly began to overwhelm me. I realized that my focus was off.
Now I focus on Facebook and OA. I put a little (read: minimal) effort into DA. The rest of the time I spend studying and working on my art.
Awesome, Mike. Just out of curiosity, if you were to bring another platform into focus, which would it be?
That’s a really hard question.
Art specific sites: I like Art Station, but don’t know if it’s what I’m looking for as far as a platform to really focus on. The new “CGHub” that Wojtek Fus and that team are working towards looks great, yet with it not being up, that’s obviously not something that I can focus on. However, I was a regular over at CGHub, so if it’s as good as CGHub was, then probably that. I have been following several other sites, but none speak to me.
Social Media: I’m not a fan of G+ at all. Twitter annoys me. So probably not those.
With all of that said, it would probably either be a blog (because I love to write) or a vlog via YouTube or Vimeo.
Mike, sounds like that limiting of networking site focus was a good move and helps channel your time/energy better.
Sean,
It has definitely helped with focus! I have more time now to focus on the things that have helped me grow as well as build relationships that are really helping me grow as well. It’s one of the best choices I’ve made so far.
I’ve been thinking heavily about starting a vlog, but it will probably take a while before I really focus in on it. I think the more important priority for me currently is to focus on my art and the relationships that I have and am making through the channels I already have open. 🙂
Thanks for creating this podcast and the interview with Sean. This came at the right time and has really helped me get on course. -Thanks Chris!
Thanks, Rajiv! So glad you liked the show!
Yes, Chris, you have a knack for posting things at the right time. Thank you very much. I’m barely hanging in and I knew I needed to reboot my strategies to make more time to work on my abilities while showing to the community, but I can see it more clearly now with that interview. Thank Sean, for sharing your story with us!
Thank you, Branca! I’m so glad to hear that our efforts are making a positive impact!
Hey Branca, thanks for tuning in. Good luck on your strategy reboot.
hilarious 🙂 about the plumber joke, there’s a video which is almost about it, it’s in italian but it has english subtitles too : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sd5mHHg1ons
enjoy 🙂
Might be considered NSFW in certain professional settings. I’ll leave the link here since it is quite relevant and not too edgy.
Funny and poignant.
This video was awesome!
These posts are always so inspiring! I spend all day everyday by myself at my computer and too hear advice from those who are succeeding is super comforting.
The question posed about micro business is an easy one for me to answer, but harder for me to practice. I found that academia tends to avoid the business side, which I always found super frustrating. Nobody wants to rattle the cage or damage the delicate cocoon of the young developing artist, but there is a reason 98% of all fine art majors are not making art 5 years after graduation. Its a bunch of dreamers being fed dream cakes by other dreamers. I imagine illustration has to have a better success rate, but for fine art, the MFA programs don’t even do a great job of preparing students for the real world.
The business and social angle are incredibly important, however, I have never been very good in this department. The one thing I’ve learned from all my experience is that talent isn’t necessary for success, so many other things factor in. I have issues with the use of social media and how its affected our generation, but your podcast has inspired me to sign up for twitter.
Second question is what advice would I have. I would just say its never too early to start thinking about the reality of the situation. There are so many crutches in our daily existence, don’t create anymore for yourselves.
Thanks for all that you do, and keep up the great work!
Tim
Tim I love your points!
Recently I’ve been meeting with students who also have these feels. So I challenged them to think of the next year of assignments as a start up to the real world. They all had 1 year at least. Loads of time!
In your experience, what factors have you found help you succeed?
@Tim, great sentence “Its a bunch of dreamers being fed dream cakes by other dreamers.” That’s really funny.
The academic environment can be a cocoon and it is special on one side—allowing for artistic growth, but it can be overly artificial when lacking grounding in economic realities, especially that last year of school when you should be getting prepared for a career.
Yah, if a school isn’t giving it’s student’s the practical business advice they need, hopefully someone is stepping in and helping direct them to a few online resources and books to help fill that gap, as well as helping place them in internships. Otherwise, it can be all the more difficult to make the jump from academia to work.
@Joshua, great point here “So I challenged them to think of the next year of assignments as a start up to the real world.” That’s great.
Lol, Thanks Sean. I love dream cakes, do you have any I could sample? Really enjoy your insight, thanks for taking the time to respond. Ill find you on my brand new twitter account, TimothySmithArt.
Josh- assignments are great, but its really up to the individual to make the effort. Once the assignments are gone and the teachers aren’t around, what will drive the work? Ive always been self driven, but I haven’t found much success. I show at one of the top printmaking galleries in the country, but it doesn’t pay bills, or provide any security. I’m currently working my contacts and trying to get an interview at one of the various gaming companies in the bay area.
Kind of what I needed to here with this pod cast. I been driven to burnout again(thought minor as I caught it before I went really downhill)… Though, ironically, it wasn’t art this time that did it! I been looking for a small job to help get some cash flow while getting off the ground. But… The job market here is still super rough, especially on part-time jobs. Hence after getting another burnout on applying for jobs, I just stopped. I am just going to take up my parents’ offer to help me pay for my loans and jump full on into personal projects just to get my pieces out there as the last month has been my least productive month art and writing wise due to all the job searching and few interviews eating up my time. And getting nothing out of it as well. I will be joining the local writing and illustration guild next month(with form and fee to seal the deal) after finding with the first real meeting with them that I really clicked in with them. I am also thinking of starting a Patreon page for my fanfiction to see if any fans might want to help me out as I know there are fans who want me to post more often. I want to finish them as well as it’s a great skill builder and I have fun writing them. Even a few cents donate a chapter would be a big help as I get out of the gates. But, I also needed that advice on freelancing. I learned this early on with my first burnout of the year. I am now finding myself focusing on ArtStation(loving it there) and probably going to spend more time on my blog on Blogger with G+ and Facebook as my main social media accounts. I’ll figure out Twitter later as I have account, but opened it for the “RightThisMinute” Ipod Mini contest(and once Log Horizon TRPG finally goes to English). I am looking into one site call Weasyl which someone had recommended to me from the guild, but that might be my only other place(and I also need to set up Skype and put that guy’s name in it) I might use. I left DeviantArt with the current Hot Topic lawsuit being the last straw and finding ArtStation to be more to my liking. Their free portfolio site you get is a blessing for someone like me who has a hard time with minor adjustments with free website builders and you can add pages to that site to use it for business as well. But, my focus now is to just get to work on art and writing to catch up on lost time and improve on it since its clear I will be getting nowhere with the old route of employment, even to just help support me with getting my real career going.
That’s amazing to have such great parents! Any amount of help with NASTY student loans is a huge help of real significance. I feel the pain of those no doubt! Good luck with your endeavors and Artistic projects!
Yes. Though, I wish they would lay off on pushing me to get a job as that was what resulted in the burnout as they did not realize I was already doing this along with other things. However, I am very grateful to them and deeply love them for their support. In fact, my loans are actually quite small compared to others as they almost help my sister and I through college with just cash. If tuition hadn’t skyrocketed, we would have not taken on the loans and I would have finished with no debt. I was only taking out loans for roughly a year before getting out of college in fact… And my parents were doing this with twins, no less. Though my sister is finishing up, hopefully, this year and has Perkin loans since she is a nursing student. Meaning if she works as a nurse for a few years, her loans will be taken care of. But, seriously, when I started in 2010, a $2000 scholarship for each semester, Marching and Concert Band payments, and just a bit of money out of pocket covered my tuition, art supplies, and books for my side. My sister wasn’t as lucky, but we still kept it around under the tuition of one person which my parents paid for. By the time I was leaving, both the scholarship and band funds didn’t even cover the tuition even with getting a raise in the band funds. In fact, two studio classes as a graduate, which I was planning to do for Spring 2014 to finish an internship, cost $2000 dollars. Just for two classes. That did not happen as I reached the end of funding and so graduated in December and been trying to learn the ropes of freelancing and such since on my own.
Hi Chris! Thanks for this great episode about the Freelancer being a Micro-business. I personally find myself in this category and the wake up call came during my taxes this year. Good news was, I didn’t pay taxes on my freelance, but then I realized I DIDN’T MAKE MONEY! (but I’ve found this isn’t uncommon especially in the first year)
So I buckled down and learned how to make Excel Spreadsheets. I made two sections, one that is about money with a projected goal and $per day rate. The second part was my time. Got a full time job with custom framing, so I’m still working with color and art. I then made a plan, separated my clients into paying jobs, opportunities, and clients I could let go. (That letting go was the hardest for me)
I also went back to the college as a visiting artist and became blown away at the students passion, which tends to get crushed by grinding freelance. I loved what they were doing and shared as much as I have learned from you and the wonderful artists on this site.
I realized it’s important to take the time we have and invest in things we love!
So now I’m tracking everything (for Taxes and personal health) and pushing my project while taking on the client work that I want thanks to my full time job taking off the panic mode. My goal is to be fully funded by my art by the end of the year. If I don’t make it that’s okay as there is the job and I will evaluate what worked and what didn’t by the end of the year.
Thank you again Chris and Sean,
Joshua Meehan
Thanks, Joshua!
Keep us posted on your goal progress!
Joshua, that’s great to hear how tracking has helped transform your plans. Sounds like you have some good data to base future growth from. I use a few spreadsheets as well, but I just use the free Spreadsheets in Google Drive.
Good luck to be fully funded by your art by the end of the year. Thanks.
Really encouraging podcast, Chris! Right now, I’m in that experimenting/learning/ honing my skills stage, but eventually I’ll need to deal with networking too. When it comes to social media, I get so overwhelmed by all the possibilities that I don’t do anything. It’s so nice to be reminded that you can focus on finding a few things that work for you.
I actually have a social media question that maybe you can answer. I’ve been interested in getting on twitter, but I don’t have a smart phone or tablet. Is it still worth trying out?
Thanks again!
Hey, Bethany.
Glad to hear you found the episode helpful.
Yes. Quality over quantity.
RE: Twitter. Oh heck yeah. Most of my Twitter time is on my Mac. I don’t connect my phone to Twitter because that would be insane. Also, they’ve just updated their profile pages and they look awesome on the desktop.
I don’t have a smart phone or tablet, and I love using Twitter on my PC. I like the new layout, how it scales tweets that have more interaction attached (Although I know some don’t like this feature) so you can see what topics you bring up that are “hot.” Totally “follow’ me @zenuva and I’ll follow back! 🙂
Thanks for the advice, Chris and Beki! My twitter account is up and running! Now I have to figure out how it works…..
I was specifically taught in school to be everywhere I could be for maximum exposure and recognition, but I’ve definitely noticed that when I just focus on 1 or 2 sites (Mainly my Blog and Twitter, now phasing FB back in – though I may phase out again when CTN deadlines come closer ><) I actually get much better feedback and more traffic to all those other places. So I do try to at least keep everything as current as possible, I'm just not fanatical about it. Also, I agree with Britny, the face-to-face connections I make take my online interactions to the next level – it feels more genuine than "cold call" emailing someone if I can say "Hey, we chatted at CTN about this…how's the project going?"
Great information and resources – big thanks to Sean and the OA+PaperWings team for another winning post! 😀
Beki,
Good to hear you have a big focus on your platform. It’s good to have your space online, such as a blog, that most of your ‘putting yourself out there’ and ‘helping people’ energy goes into.
Yah, I certainly don’t want to devalue real life meetups. I wish I did more of them. I often only make it to one conference a year and just a couple meetups. Your points on face-to-face connections feeling more genuine are valid.
“Cold call” emailing is definitely a tough tactic to do and not feel ‘icky’ about. I certainly wouldn’t judge anyone to do it though, especially if they are getting success with the strategy. The toughest job I ever had was selling yellow page advertising, which was literally nothing but cold calling in person and over the phone. I feel you, that’s ‘rough.’ I much prefer blogging 🙂
I feel ya – at this point I can only afford 1-2 expos a year and I don’t currently live in a place where there’s a whole lot going on for me, so I try to really maximize what I do without getting too overwhelmed or loosing that “authenticity” factor. I usually try to have 1-2 goals and it’s never been to Network. I think that idea holds a lot of weight and is confusing to those of us starting out. I saw a video the other day by Will Terrell about networking and it really de-mystified the topic. As does this post. Wish I had known all this when I was still in school. ><
I'm just too shy/nervous (?) to make the cold call work I think. Not in email and DEFINITELY not on the phone. My art teachers in school always told me about the phone calls they'd have to make to editors and directors in New York and it would scare the s— out of me. Major kudos to those who can do it!
Hey Beki,
Yah, the term “networking” does feel intimidating.
A really simple way to look at it is to make friends. That’s a good starting point. That’s the big reason I go to conferences is to have fun and make friends. If I form looser connections, that’s good too but I’m not good at making that my main goal.
But most professional networking isn’t exactly making close friendships, they are more beneficial, loose connections. That is quite hard to grasp hold of and feel genuine about and I think when business can feel impersonal. There are times that it feels like a good fit though, when both your goals are in alignment.
Yah, it’s always better to make warm connections, than have to cold contact. It does have it’s place though and can be done genuinely. I wouldn’t have met Chris for this podcast if he hadn’t taken the chance on emailing me.
Thanks.
Yep gotta make the most of those CTN connections!
Chris – Thanks for these podcasts, they are always so helpful and informative!
Love the new format. Can’t wait for part two.
Loved the comments on students and young artists not making their online postings advantageous to their career. I try to be a friend to those I interact with online, but can see my peers failing to do so in a professional manner. I know a lot of my classmates are interested in freelancing down the line, and it just seems totally unreasonable for them not to take into account the advantages of strategically planning/ editing posts.
Kia, great to hear that you’re recognizing the value of building a platform and your reputation early on. It puts you ahead of the curve. Thanks.
Great podcast, like others have said, exactly what many of us needed to hear right now. Thank you so much for pushing us to be…well, less shy, that’s something I really struggle with, both online and in-person…trying to talk to people at CTNX and other meetups is so nerve-racking, I can’t really seem to get over that barrier.
For people who have, perhaps, gone the incorrect route on social media – spreading themselves too thin between various social outlets – what would you suggest to help them take steps to simplify, and maybe rectify that situation?
Hey Chris, I enjoy these shorter and segmented podcasts! They are much easier to listen to. I tend to get interrupted when I listen to the longer ones and rarely go back to them afterwards.
Hey Megan,
I hear you about the shyness factor. It’s good to hear you’re pushing up against your comfort zone with that; it’s worth it.
Yah, if you’re mostly blasting updates across numerous social channels, that really isn’t a discussion with a person, nor a real connection. There is some value in doing that type of marketing, but it’s limited. It’s more helpful to invest in real conversations, especially as an artist—commercial or otherwise, especially early on.
Try forming a narrower strategy, one you’ve seen others implement successfully, then make that a major part of your focus for a few months. Evaluate and measure your progress along the way, then decide if the value is worth the time and energy you’re putting in. Ask yourself: am I getting a return on this? It’s important to stick with what feels like a solid approach long enough that you have the potential for a return, but to be flexible enough to try something else if it doesn’t work.
That may feel a little loose, so here’s a real example: I’m participating in this creative community right now, interacting with you. You might check out my site, because I demonstrated that I care, and I either helped you, or tried to help you. That’s the type of first point of contact you often make in social media or in a community online.
It often takes a few points of this type of contact for it to feel like a connection. They may or may not stick, but each of those conversations have the potential to stick. Over time you can get better at funneling these interactions into longer term relationships. Relationships can be of all sorts, helpful peer relationships, peer to mentor relationships, clients, etc. How you interact online is you trying to cultivate these connections and implementing strategies that allow you to keep existing connections and grow more.
You may need to interact with someone and help them a few times to form a bond. Keep in mind some interaction is direct and personal, but someone reading your blog post, while less personal, can be just as helpful. So, what you’re creating are touch-points between you and them. The more genuine, the better.
If you’re struggling with a first strategy, then I’ll give my biased opinion (keep in mind there are lots of strategies that can work, but typically try one or a limited number at a time). Do, what you’re doing now, comment on peoples sites and forums. Retweet their posts. Jump into their online communities. Then publish guest posts on their site.
That last one on guest posting is often where you start to be scene as someone with real wisdom to share in a particular community, which demonstrates a level of authority and trust. You give people real value and they tend to want to know what you’re up to and follow you online. You’re sharing knowledge they find helpful.
Thanks.
Fantastic.
Hi Chris!
This was so spot on, I just got back from an illustration congress in Bogota and had a workshop with illustrator Chris Buzelli and AD SooJin Buzelli, and so much of what they talked about is reflected here. It’s so refreshing to hear consistent and invaluable advice from professionals, they also discussed about not being shy and showing your work, and keeping in touch consistently.
Looking forward to the next one, this is great!
This is awesome. I was just talking to my mum about this, and saying “I need to focus my online efforts to just a few sites so I have more time for drawing!” Very nice chat-thank you for sharing!
Such a good podcast! I talked to a guy the other day who makes thousands of dollars just engaging with people on twitter, so my mind is blown + opened to the possibilities.
I’ve recently realized my own lack of entrepreneurship and decided to partner with a VERY SUCCESSFUL entrepreneur as I release my next book. He’s one of those contacts Justin talked about – I’ve been nurturing that relationship for a long time.
Man I’m so glad Chris pushed me to go on twitter, an amazing community of constant inspiration and most of my posts are about resources I find and little of my own art, but sharing is caring ey! Also thanks for the laughs wingers
Very insightful podcast! 🙂
I extremely agree that it’s important to set aside time every day to work on your art, regardless if it’s a quick idea for a character design, thumbnails for a digital painting, storyboards, and etc. Nowadays, I feel guilty when I miss a day to a draw. I need to draw, even if I know I’m gonna have a full day of my non-art day job. Even 10 minutes to draw is better than none!
I also agree about just the act of doing what you love. A few years back I was at a panel for the “Drawn to Life” books, and I had asked the panelists what I needed to do to just keep my habits up. And they all agreed that it is important to just KEEP DRAWING. Everyone in my life who’s been in a teacher to me has said the same thing 🙂
I’m also very relieved to know that it’s okay to “not be everywhere”. I remember right after I graduated from college, I was trying to make a FB just for my art, keeping up with a website that took FOREVER to edit (I was using Dreamweaver), and maintaining my blogspot. I also had other venues on my mind like Twitter, but then I realized that trying to put myself on every single social media venue was gonna drive me crazy. So now I just focus on tumblr, blogspot, and my linkedin accounts.
As much as I wish that my career could just happen sooner, I have to accept the fact that things don’t happen overnight. I gotta keep doing what I’m doing. I gotta build it up!
Hey Jennifer,
Yah, marketing can be quite time consuming. You certainly don’t want your creative skills to atrophy because you’re spending too much time in various social networks.
Sounds like your strategy has gotten more focused over time. Are you tracking your results to measure how your time in is helping you reach your goals? That will help you decide how each channel is working for you and whether you should keep committing the same level of energy to it. Thanks.
Awesome, inspiring episode. Thanks so much for sharing 🙂
I’d just like to add to the discussion that artpact.com does have a table of reference values if you want to make a quick check on rates and values – evaluated on 1-5 stars. You just need to register for free.
Of course, calculating your rate is the BEST way – but I also understand people get insecure about prices, so this can be a little confidence booster. 🙂 It’s worth checking out.
All the best!
Great share, Sula. Thank you!
I loved this Podcast and all of the comments! I learn so much from you guys. I really liked the part about finding communities on twitter, I have found one but, I need to find more to be apart of. It is also nice to know I don’t have to be everywhere! It takes up more time than I think it will just to post 1 image to all the diffrent platforms that can be used.
Jessica Hische, a succesful graphic designer, wrote a great blogpost about pricing.
It focuses on what rights you are selling (web, print, for what period, etc).
She also gave a good example.
I highly recommend it!
http://jessicahische.is/thinkingthoughtsaboutpricing
Great resource, Suzanne.
Again, the article might raise the NSFW flag in some work cultures because of an ironic joke right at the beginning.
Awesome episode!! It’s particularly good to hear (and see in other comments!) that idea of not needing to be everywhere – there’s definitely this pressure to sort of be all over the place on social media, to have our hands in everything, and I know I have trouble feeling like I can balance all of it and still have any kind of strong presence, or know what the “right” platform to be on is at any given time.
And there’s the issue of shyness too, or feeling like I don’t have something to talk about with peers online who I don’t know personally – which seems a little ridiculous, when framed in light of how we all have common goals with our work. That and prioritizing better are definitely going to be things I focus on more going forward!
That’s great, Ashley. Yes. It’s wonderful to focus on the topics that unify us.
Rad podcast! Looking forward to next segment.
On the topic of being asked to do freelance work for “a percent if it sells,” I was actually approached just this week by someone (former landlord) wanting me to design a product box, and when I asked about payment he said what he’d prefer is to pay a “royalty for each sold,” saying that this is the arrangement he has with the circuitry / electronics designers. I had never heard of such a thing before in graphic design, and when I envisioned in my head the prospect of him selling zero units, or selling just a dozen and being paid zero or pennies for the work, it all flashed red signs of badness and I told him, as professionally as I could, that that’s interesting but flat rate or per hour is more usual for graphic design. I basically decided that this “royalty” model is just not going to work for graphic design or for me, he can take it or leave it. It’s interesting to hear this come up in your podcast, this is only the second time I’ve ever heard of it! I am pretty much convinced that this model is going to be nothing but bad news for graphic designers and we should all be refusing. I like what Lora said to this phenomenon: if the device doesn’t sell, it’s not the artist’s fault 🙂
Kathleen,
Yah the No Spec movement is a big. It’s something to read up on http://www.nospec.com/ and form your own opinion on the subject.
I wasn’t mentioning spec work in the podcast as if it’s a great path to income, nor good for the freelance economy. It is an option, I did participate in contests, and I did earn okay. It is much like starting in the “basement of the mailroom” though or in some cases “the sewer of the basement of the mailroom.” It’s so much better to build your reputation and grow your freelance clients outside that framework; for example, from your own platform online.
Yah, anytime someone is offering something other than a flat payment it should send off flashing warning signs to freelancers. It’s all too often that someone is offering empty promises to elicit free work. That said, it could be a legitimate offer, as it’s not unheard of. I would in-general avoid those kind of design for “royalty” offers.
You see it quite often in web design especially, where an unfunded entrepreneur wants to partner with a developer. It’s rarely worth the developer’s time risk to work on spec for potential “royalty,” even if proper contracts were in place.
Sounds like you’re making the right call to walk away.
Chris really liked the post where I follow your blog, but it would be great if you could post a written interview legend, because I am Brazilian and I am not so good in English, as text (in English even) I could translate, thank
Great episode! The part about deciding what social media platforms to be on really stood out to me. Right now I’m on tumblr, twitter, and instagram. But I’ve found that I get way less of a response posting art on tumblr and a lot of response posting on Instagram. So I’m thinking of cutting tumblr out entirely. I mostly use tumblr to find interesting art/reblog art tutorials/resources, anyways.
I used to frequent deviantART a lot back in middle and high school before I found Tumblr and I spent a good amount of time in the chatroom and forums. I always felt like deviantART had a strong community while tumblr is a little more spread out and it doesn’t have a very user friendly messaging system.
So I guess now I’m kind of just floating along trying to find an actual art community. I’m a bit hesitant to go back to dA. Places like Behance seem too professional and forums like CA.org (do people still go on here lol?) and Permanoobs seem too academic. But I’m sure I’ll find something eventually. I’m still getting used to Twitter and Instagram is fun for posting sketch book pages and progress. Figuring out what to post where is a whole other thing.
Anyways, I look forward to the next installment! Thanks!
Kellye, this kind of analysis is helpful in shaping your strategy as you move forward:
“Right now I’m on tumblr, twitter, and instagram. But I’ve found that I get way less of a response posting art on tumblr and a lot of response posting on Instagram.”
Sounds like you could experiment with winding down Tumblr and putting more energy into Instragrm or if time allows trying another strategy instead.
This podcast couldn’t be timed better! For the moment, my mailbox gets flooded by all the posts of the forums/blogs/newsletters I’m subscribed to and I find myself neglecting all of them just because I can’t keep up.
I basically started to put my work on CGsociety as a way to stamp date my work for copyright reasons, without the need of printing it out and sending it back to me in a closed envelope. Both methods probably won’t hold in court, but it is better than nothing.
And from there it basically exploded because x people try to convince you to join social media A, while y people cannot understand why you are not active on forum B and so on. A bit of peer pressure there, I guess. But more importantly because the fear to miss out on something. It’s amazing how FEAR holds us back, right!
The hard part of those social art sites (I just call them that way: behance, dribble, …) is all the likes. Soon it feels that if you don’t get x likes, you suck and down goes your already shaky confidence. What people often forget is that these sites are flooded with new art and that your time on the front page is very short.
So I re-evaluated my priorities: bury the ‘like’- junky in me and rebrand my portfolio website (no likes, only shares). The current one and it is not good enough to represent clearly what I do, what clients can expect of me. I still doubt if I should blog.
The second interesting topic covered (a tiny bit) was what I call the spectre of bidding sites. No matter how hard you fight them, they keep haunting internet freelancing world, and frankly it won’t go away. The only solution is you staying away from them. Just as Will Terry said: clients over there are interested in toothpicks, which you can find in every store and they just go for the lowest price. Do you want to be a toothpick?
It’s easier said than done. And when you haven’t seen any decent clients in a month or two, it’s tempting to sell your very soul. That’s why it is important to have plan B up your sleeve to get food on the table, so you can fire those nasty clients. But again here the danger lies in FEAR. You keep on clinging to a steady daytime job because the money is good, right? Because it gives you security, and before you know, 10 years later, you’re still stuck in a job that asks too much time from you to find decent clients or to start making passionate projects you have in the back of your mind. So i set myself goals, such as: figure out the very baseline of money you need to live, and save enough money for 6 months. Then quit my soul sucking job and start freelancing full time.
And the third topic: working for free.
I had two rules: never work for free and never ask people to work for free for me (that includes illegal downloads of software, music and movies!).
Well I broke the first. My daytime job (I’m in the situation described above, but not planning to wait another 10 years) is so unfulfilling and my bosses do not recognize any of my efforts (no intrinsic or extrinsic rewards here) that I yearned to do some work where my insecure ego did get some confirmation (again FEAR).
It turned out great. The guy I’m working with is very passionate about his projects and puts a lot of genuine effort in it. He has a broad understanding of what it takes to come up with a good concept (not like: it looks easy so it is easy), gives clear briefs and does not expect me to drop everything in my life at his whim. The assigned concept projects are well defined (not something that starts out as X and ends up in Z-space a zillion lightyears away, which is always the case with my bosses, who expect me to be able to pull a whole pixar animation out of my bu …computer because if they can, why can’t I. After all you’re just drawing, their 6 year old nephews are drawing, so what’s the problem) so there is no feeling whatsoever that he takes advantage of my rare free time. I learned a lot too. How to efficiently communicate design problems and solutions and such. AND the most important part: I had lots of fun doing these concepts.
If I’m working for free again, it’s for this guy and some friends I have that are brooding on game projects. Basically people I KNOW and TRUST that they are putting their heart and soul into their dream project….not for the bakery at the end of the street, not for someone I do not know on some forum. Because in the end it won’t be something you want to put in your portfolio (the bakery logo in all the colours of the rainbow and comic sans because he likes it that way) and doing things for free will harm your professional image VERY badly.
Looking forward the the next podcast!
kim,
I handle newsletters by having them go into a folder automatically in Gmail, so they skip my inbox. Then I can treat them much the same as a feed reader, only reading the newsletters that look interesting.
It can also help to unsubscribe from anything you really don’t want to be receiving. I haven’t tried this yet https://unroll.me/, but it’s one to look into. I’ve heard good things about how quickly it can help you clean up your inbox.
The “fear” of silence, of no response or a limited response, when participating in a portfolio community is tough. Any response you get though for posting on a social art site is good, even if it’s a small response. Each of those likes was someone who might not have otherwise come into contact with your art. Bottom-line it’s just a bit of marketing.
Yah, I definitely recommend adding a blog to your portfolio site, and putting time into your space online to build your authority and reputation long term. The best way to not have to rely on “bidding sites” is to build your own platform online and your reputation. That way you are controlling your client channel. The freelancers that I’ve worked with that have done a great job with this, worked on building niche blogs over time that led to a constant stream of clients.
Yah, figuring out your baseline you need for your freelance business is really helpful to making the jump to full-time. It’s also helpful for the first year of full-time to as much as possible cut down all your expenses across the board. Be as frugal as possible early on.
Yah, free is not a business moel. I did quite a bit of spec work in the past. It isn’t a reliable or quality way to build a business. Doing free work for friends in a tight community is probably fun and fine, but yah take care with spec work with clients, as it rarely, if ever leads to paying work. There are exceptions of course.
Great to hear the podcast struck ideas for you to help shape your path forward. Good luck with finding more clients and level-ing up the once you have.
Hi Sean,
thanks for the tips! + You won me over to the blogging site side. It’s been put on my master plan!
Thanks again for a great podcast. I’m looking forward to part 2 of it.
Listening to the interview makes me realise that I need to think about my social media accounts and how I’ll continue to use it.
I hope to go freelance someday despite the quite intimidating costs (at least here in Germany). But I’m saving up, work on my art skills and thanks to all the great Art Casts and the PaperWings podcasts I finally started my comic project. Thanks a lot, Chris. And to you co-hosts at PaperWings Lora and Justin.
An inspiring discussion, indeed. I know this feeling too well. Earlier I tried to expand on all possible ways, but of course it started to be very exhausting. Finally, years ago, I discovered that all I need is a website/blog and a mainsite people can use to interact with me, and a kind of gallery that is only focussing on my work. So I sticked with Deviantart when it comes to the social aspect, where anyone can read my thoughts, see my work and discuss about all sorts of things (An alternate option is a blog on Tumblr being my sketchbook, and a second one for more personal thoughts, in case I will have to leave Deviantart for any reason).
A mainblog that is more the “webpresence” showing my work as well as thoughts or information, and another artsite which is just focussing on images (DrawCrowd), showing just the work I do (kinda like a portfolio), is what I have running at the moment.
As I first joined Deviantart when I went out there to say “hello” to the world (and I am still more or less shy, so yet I didn’t really let the world hear my voice – English is not my native language, but it’s getting there, haha), many years ago, more people already discovered me there. Due to my work for an indie author people discover my name and, not many but at least a bunch, people find my blog as well as whereever I am active.
I think with what I am doing now I am following the best possible path (at the moment) and I want to focus on Deviantart (for the more personal aspect) as there are people being interested in my personal projects. Besides that I joined a blog, now running it together with my best friend, where we basically gather all sorts of helpful material in terms of “How to draw/paint/design” or to talk about what we notice regarding design decisions, or how to use a “The art of…” book properly to learn from it.
I use Facebook solely for a more “closed” list of contacts, however I accept contacts when it’s other illustrators, or designers, or authors (colleagues and/or best friends).
I think nowadays, as an aspiring illustrator/professional or even just for the hobby, it is about being persistent with whatever the own goal looks like. And as the internet grows faster, bigger, and connects anywhere, people will always find you if you stay focussed (as everything connects).
“The point is to make real relationships. Reach out to people (whether you’re best-friendsies or it’s just a professional relationship) (…) ”
– I agree with that! This is so important, and over time it will happen if one stays active.
I myself try to reach out to those who basically are at the beginning of their plans. I wish someone would have done this when I was down there, at the beginning of everything. But I had to climb as far as I came by my own, now I want to make a difference by helping people the way no one helped me. Yet it seems not many respond to that, but over time… people start to gain trust. I think most of my “followers” (rather saying people being interested in what I do) gathered because, over many years, they noticed that I am really sticking with my plans.
People can follow the development of my personal story, I also try to combine this with helping anyone writing an own story, building an own world, by making it possible for them to see a process instead of letting them wait for years after years, just to show the shiny finished product.
I guess that summarizes everything I wanted to mention. My biggest thanks to you, Chris, and everyone involved in the interview, for another inspiring episode. Looking forward to read all the comments, but after a day of inking-practice my eyes feel a little “off”, haha.
Have a great day everybody.
Really inspiring story you’ve shared David. You have an evolved approach to your social media, portfolio and forum strategy. It’s great that you have your own established web presence, also that you’re actively blogging, and are genuinely helping those coming up behind you. The energy you put into helping people is a major component of what builds a group that cares about what you’re doing online.
Thanks for the podcast, I used to visit Freelance Switch all the time, shame it finished, but glad that the articles are still available.
About the pricing calculator: there are tools for working out a rate on the AN website http://www.a-n.co.uk/knowledge_bank/article/203835/77174.
Actually having someone say, it’s okay not to have to be on every form of social media is such a big release of pressure. Focusing the plan and finding where the best avenue is for you is – This advice is such a great tip to my current struggles with marketing.
Great podcast dude. I’ll tweet this out.
Freelance Switch actually used to bring work in for me – but I guess Envato are just super busy bringing in the £ elsewhere!
Keep it up dude.
Woody
I haven’t read all the other comments so maybe someone already said this. Anyway. I have this great price calculator app for my iphone called MyPrice. I love it I just put in all my my info once (rent, bills, etc.) and then when I get a new job I but that info in and it give me a good idea of what to charge. Highly recommended. Sounds like it would be a good alternative to the price calculator that you mentioned was no longer.
Thanks for the tip! I hope they have a version for android.
I love the end of this where you encourage us to help others with no strings attached. This is something I’ve been wanting to do but have avoided because I felt I should focused on making money. But when I see a friend could use a new logo for their company and I know I could make them a great one, it’s hard to just walk away because I know they couldn’t afford to hire me to do it.
So I’ll go ahead and make those logos/facebook cover photos to help them out. They are struggling like I am and I would want someone to be willing to help me.
Thank you for this podcast, it gave me a lot to think about. I’ve never taken my overhead/cost of living into account when charging for my work. Now I will.
What a great episode. It’s such a relief to hear about the same problems. I am one of those ‘lonely’ illustrators and don’t get to interact with others outside of a bit of Facebook. The second art of this recording was especially relevant. The whole work for free and royalties based thing is getting well out of hand. I refer you to Bookthrope, a purely royalty based platform for writers and artist. Then there these ‘competition’ sites like Talenthouse. I just feel this is all feeding the lowballing of artists and is currosive too the industry as a whole. A topic to be covered perhaps? I have used the plumber/carpenter analogy for a few years now sadly…and i still get requests to do stuff with big promises.