Claire Keane is a brilliant illustrator and visual development artist, who has helped to develop numerous immersive worlds, including Tangled and Duet.
After leaving Disney, she released her first illustrated children’s book: Once Upon A Cloud. It’s a beautifully rendered, heartwarming story about family and following your dreams.
Join us today as we discuss humanizing your fictional characters, the versatile power of line, leaving Disney and Claire’s new artistic path…
Listen To Our Interview With Claire Keane:
[ download the mp3 ]
More From Claire Keane:
‘Once Upon A Cloud’ by Claire Keane
Awesome Links:
‘Man And His Symbols’ by Carl Jung
‘The Wisdom Of Joseph Campbell’ on Audible.com
Theme music by Research Division
Transition music by The Years
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Brainstorm and Share!
Despite the extraordinary quality of the story, Claire’s idea for Once Upon A Cloud came from a very ordinary place.
Can you find a few extraordinary story ideas in the ordinary aspects of your own life?
Share your thoughts in the comments below!
Aw, this is such an inspiring podcast!
I believe it’s one of my favs now! Thank you so much Claire, for coming to the show!
I keep having tons of weird and funny ideas out of the most normal things. Most of them will never turn into a story but they are good brain exercises.
Like, 2 years ago when I used to play a lot of games on my playstation, then I went to sleep, left for work, and when I came back I was in a level I didn’t even remember!
So I thought to myself, “eighter I’m playing games in my sleep or someone else is”… my boyfriend was with me all times, and the only living being in the house was my cat…
..yeah. Guess what idea I had. Ninja cat…. playing PS and stealing food from the fridge…
I still don’t know how those levels came from though… Maybe I’m sleep walking…
*goes away to install cameras all over her house*
Ha ha, that’s so funny Ania! I wouldn’t even be surprised if it turned out to be your cat! The one my mom has thinks we’re all its slaves… they’re probably some sort highly intelligent aliens mind controlling us or something (like in that Futurama episode)!
Right??!
My cat throws herself to the ground when we walk close to her so we’re under the impression we stepped on her and give her food as an apology!
Smart little creatures… destroying my saves…
#nocturnalgamercats
Where is the Like button?!?!
Hahahahaha xD
I’m so happy with this right now. Holy cow. I met Claire at Proweekend last year. It was so inspiring to hear her talk about her character creation process and how her children’s book came about.
“It is an organism, not a machine. Organisms have their own time” <– Justin, that's PROFOUND. Goodness.
I love the conversation about making habits and routines. Finding a rhythm. So true!
I also love how Claire zoomed in and zoomed out for her thumbnails and talked about the details of the process of the book (how it was written and illustrated at the same time). And then left Disney to really pursue the story that needed to be told.
I basically agree with and love everything in this cast. It's so friggin inspiring. THANK YOU, Chris and Lora and Justin and Claire and the rest of the OA team. I am SO excited for more OAlive! stuff! Can't wait for the incubator session tomorrow!
Also. MAGICAL FIREPLACES!
Yes yes yes and yeeeessss!!!!
I love yoyur comments Britny. Because you just go straight to the heart. I love you.
Straight to the point Britny! Specially the organism part… that sentence right there (and the whole cast actually) just gave me the permission to cut myself some slack!
Yeah, one of my big take aways is that pressure is the opposite of creativity.
Claire talked about how she had to get away from the studio and spend time with Rapunzel before she really felt like she knew her. That’s been a big problem for me in my next project– I want to race to get it done, but I haven’t slowed down enough to get to know my characters first.
I know once I do that, the book will write itself!
Totally! Somehow it never works to vut corners! :-/
Wise words Lora! I always want to either bury myself in meandering research or just leap into things (or both) but it’s all about the strong foundation of honest story and characters.
This is what I have to repeat as I try to jump ahead with my OAL project…
One of my biggest takeaways for me is that we are not only creating for the people that we work for. I also create for myself, even when I draw Batman and Justice League, or when Claire is drawing Repunzel. It’s not just for Disney. I think that sooner or later, it probably becomes more about creating for the company, and you sort of can’t find yourself in it anymore. Claire and Oats had to leave the studio. The organism comment comes from the sense that sometimes, you gotta let it grow on it’s own. Sometimes at work, i’ll take a few days, to a week on a scene, just because it has to grow on it’s own, consequences or not. We can’t forget that we are creating out of a really special place, not just to take home a paycheck, or to see our work on a tv screen. Thanks for the kind works Britny:]
SO GOOD!
Goodness. I love you guys so MUCH. Especially you, Ania. Nicole and Lora, I’m learning about taking time for characters to breathe. I find, especially when I’m getting close to the end of a story, I tend to sprint and forget those moments that need to happen for actions to make sense. Those thought processes within a character that are so vital for story development. Why are they so easily forgotten when they’re so important?!
I’m with you, Lora! I tend to want to race to get things done. Because I can’t wait to finally have a done and good project on my magical skills belt.
Justin, I’ve been sitting on a certain chapter in a story I’m working on for two weeks. It takes some serious patience. I keep trying different solutions for the scene and nothing feels right yet. I’m glad it’s okay to do that. Not everything is a race. Thanks for helping me to see that and reminding me that I do this for ME, not just for everyone else.
Chris, SO GOOD…OH MY GOODNESS. 😀 😀 😀
Yup. I’ve been wanting to finish The Dreamer so that I can work on other stories, and some people have been encouraging me to make the ending shorter.
But if I do that, I undermine everything I built. The ending has to make sense, as well as be earned.
Yeah than it is you, the creator talking and acting instead of letting the story finish itself. It is like the two worlds colliding and asking for attention.
Well I had missed you guys! I just got a notification and just starting listening while working on a spread for a picture book 🙂 will comment about it after..I must say the names mentioned interest me greatly : Claire Keane + Joseph Campbell + Carl Jung! can’t wait to see what is it all about!
This is the perfect episode to listen to while working on a picture book!
Can’t wait to hear what you think!
Right on Lora! I got so inspired to work harder!!
Hi Hatem!
Thank you for stopping by! 😀
Can’t wait to read your thoughts on this ep. This one is a golden egg! Really hope you enjoy it.
Hatem! You = Awesome. Can’t wait to hear your thoughts on the interview!
Thanks Hatem! We get just as excited, believe it or not:]
Truth.
Well that was an awesome interview! the funny thing is I had just had a second reading (or listening to the audiobook) of “A Hero with a thousand faces” by Joseph Campbell ..and so much agree that as storytellers we would greatly benefit from Jungian approaches to myth ..after Jung there was a wonderful rereading of the human folklore and tradition (ex: works of Joseph Campbell & Robert Bly & Marion Woodman..etc) ..I remember there was a meaning to the themes we are used to like : Golden something (hair, fruit, sword, toy, tooth…etc)..absent or indifferent father.. absent good mother and a present evil step mom…etc… they all have this source that is as early as humanity ..it really puts you in this “background story” mode where you see a much bigger picture and sometimes you even have to stop as every time you find a piece of the puzzle the original image gets bigger 🙂
Another thing ..I also do this drafts or sketches of all pages in one page..even for comics. an I find it easier and relaxing since you don’t have to face an empty page/frame more often and also see things flowing better.. it could be a personality trait but I found what she said hits home 🙂
Awesome conversation..truly inspiring..
thanks guys..keep up the wonderful work (sorry for the compulsive use of dots)
I was most happy to just hear Justin again. Miss you man!
You’re all amazing 😀 OA Live!! Whoo hoo!
It is weird doing OA Live without Justin! As I was creating the curriculum, I kept wanting to write him in as the guest teacher on the every episode, because he’d be perfect for any of them! It’ll be a PW party the day that he co-teaches class.
Open-Pit-Barbeque-Sauce!
Haha Lora:) Maybe in season two? Lora just gave away my podcast secret!!
This needs to happen.
Haha, thanks Nic! I miss you too dude. You know you can call me up anytime dude:) lets actually talk soon, I wanna hear what you been up to:)
ok i haven’t finished the pad cast yet so i’ll be commenting again later. But i have to get this out now.
Chris is talking about OA Live. AND I”M SO FREAKING EXCITED!!! OA LIVE IS THE BEST EVER!!!
i’m so excited i have to talk in caps .
and the Brett Bean class. AHHH I want to take it so bad. i can’t wait for that ahhh.
***Jumping up and down a lot****** i literally don’t know what to do with my excitement over this.
ok excitement vented. i can listen to the podcast now.
you guys are awesome
We are all so very excited about OA Live!! I’ve been on more of the outside of OA Live so as more and more of it is revealed to me, it’s been knocking me over! I was telling Chris that this is really the best thing that we’ve ever done! Only someone who really loves to teach and loves people can come up with a course like this, and Chris and Lora fit both of those categories:)
Aw Justin you are totally missed.
it’s a total knock out. it’s amazing and getting better. it’s like being on a rocket ship with no breaks and infinite fuel.
Lora and Chris are amazing and what they created is just…there are no words.
i easily have a conversation almost everyday with some awesome OA Live friend that eventually evolves into how grateful we are to them for bringing us together. and that we actually have a community to go to.
Haha! Thanks, Andie!!!
So glad to have you among the beta group for OA Live!
My class with Brett is currently scheduled to launch around August. Will keep you posted.
thank you Chris.
i’m loving OA Live. it’s so cool how everybody has really come together.i love getting to know everyone so well.
and thanks for the August info. Bobby and I were just talking that yesterday.
We were also talking about how cool it is that all the OA character designers have kinda been naturally drawing together and have created this little crazy character design corner. everyone’s so cool.
Cray-Cray group has been amazing. And the party is just going to get bigger now that everyone can join!
So glad that you’ve been loving it. We have, too!
Cray Cray partay just getting startay!!!
*dances all around*
Oh man I’m SO excited for this today!
Follow your passions is SO HARD. Especially when you like a bunch of things that seem not to tie together and feel like time is passing and you must figure it out! Just yesterday I realized that I curate myself too much. I don’t just sit and draw stuff. Especially not with painting since it seems like that would take a chunk out of my productive time. But I’ve started just randomly painting thoughts and characters for my OAL project and the project feels more rewarding already!
EVERYONE sign up for OAL. It IS cray cray, but just the connections that I’ve made alone are worth it. Plus there is some pretty mind-blowing content. Like the only way it could be more revelational is if the whole thing was presented by Kermit with guest appearances by Grover.
I also love the validation of research, but it’s nice to be reminded of thinking about the heart of the image/story. I used to get stuck in research phase a lot, but I learned that that was just fear of starting. I love the idea of looking at the greater picture of what’s not working, then once that’s fixed, all those bits of research will fit together.
Love PWP. I took notes.
I would immediately relinquish my role at The Oatley Academy if Kermit were available to take over.
It’s been so great getting to know you through the beta phase of OA Live!, Abrian. You always have such amazing perspective. Here’s to many more great conversations…
If Kermit showed up Miss Piggy & I would have a girl fight over him.
There would be hair pulling, flappy-hands slapping… and then she would win.
She’s got a mean double back hand but she telegraphs her attack Lora…
About liking a bunch of things that don’t tie together–I totally do that! It can be frustrating when you hear professional artists say things like “You just gotta do art and nothing else ever.” But if I don’t have a life in addition to my art, I have nothing to make art about. its finding the balance that’s so darn difficult. Lately I’ve started to just sit and draw stuff whenever I can and it has felt so great!
“But if I don’t have a life in addition to my art, I have nothing to make art about.”
So true SarahLuAnn! I have so many different interests! I love nearly every sport, and one of the things that I love about sports is how many different stories are going on. It’s something that gets my wife interested as well:[] Different interests also makes your art relatable. People connect on the things that they like, and if you are telling stories about those things, especially stories that move them, then you are making magic! That’s what “The Lego Movie” did so well!
At one point I really restricted myself to what I was reading or drawing, much like Claire Keane´s drawing of a car that had nothing to do with Rapunzel. Her takeaway was different and valid in that she was able to find inspiration in an seemingly unrelated shape. For me personally I learned to let my interests guide me and at some point it will fit into a project just like the perfect puzzle piece. I love looking at home magazines where they showcase beautiful interiors and I always thought it was such a guilty pleasure. But it is all coming back to me now when I just doodle in my sketchbook and rooms and furniture somehow plays a big role. And I catch myself wondering why I can draw a ton of furniture, as if over the years these images accumulated in my brain and now it is their time to be let out. So I guess my point is: never limit your interests, experiences or life in general just because you think it takes away time for “actual” art making.
You’re right SarahLuAnn, your life is what drives your art. Anthony Holden addressed this very well in a comic: http://anthonyholden.tumblr.com/post/50578458046/what-are-studios-looking-for-how-can-i-get-into-a
It is hard to find a connection to link all of our joys and experiences into one career, and the pressure to get your life all figured out early on makes things really difficult! The balance will come… I hope!
Abrian, if it’s not apparent by now, the community aspect of OAL is what I am looking forward to the MOST!! We believe that connecting with people on a deeper level is how we get better. There is something so precious about suffering through the same things together, that’s what turns a group of 19 year olds into soldiers on a team. This class is going to be epic! I can already see in your comments how you are beginning to change, that is AMAZING! Thanks for the kind words:]
There is something really healing about hearing that other people are struggling with the same things you are. It makes you feel less alone, and less like something is wrong with you.
“We are all the same.”
Creative Community is important for this reason alone. But what is going on at OA Live is so much more than that already. It’s amazing to sit back and watch. Because Chris & I set the stage but the students are the one adding all of the value.
Am I changing, or am I just allowing everyone to see how crazy I’ve been all along? It’s a fine line 😛
OAL has brought some serious revelations for me for sure!
And Lora, it IS nice to not feel like something’s wrong. I was never the stereotypical artist so it’s nice to know that there are some people who Do function the same way I do. Which of course makes me feel more confident about my stories connecting to others.
Thanks for reminding me of that point, Abrian!
I *loved* where she talked about saying “Yes-And” to your art. I self-edit before I get started all of the time.
This didn’t used to be the case. But now that people are watching what I do, I second guess myself a lot. I need to draw for fun again, without the pressure of having to ever show anyone else.
You know, take a “Sunday Drive” like Chris talked about in OA Live.
YES I actually heard that and realized that I need more Sunday Drives. Everything is always so goal oriented in my life. I have to learn to be okay with doing seemingly pointless things.
…it kind of hurts to write that. Not quite there yet!
Over the last month I’ve listened to ALL the Paper Wings episodes and I’m so excited to be caught up! So many of the episodes mention the awesome community and I’m excited to be up-to-date and ready to participate! I’m still starting listening to this episode and its already awesome, I will listen to the whole thing and find something intelligent to say, maybe. At least I’ll try to.
Haha! We’re in the same boat, SarahLuAnn! We’re just trying to find something intelligent to say!
Welcome to the Winger family, SarahLuAnn!
As Chris always says, “Put your wings on!”
This one is soooooo nice!!!! Arg!!! It’s unbelievable! My biggest take away from this, as a person who drives myself too hard, is just to relax a bit and give myself some time! If the amazing Claire says it’s necessary, than who am I to argue!
The other thing that really rang a bell, was Claire’s comment about needing to find something you like (and are excited about) in your work before even getting started. There is such a big difference between a “happy” drawing and a “bad day” drawing… also, I’m totally going to steal the thing about making “yes and” drawings! Sounds so fun!
Yea, just thanks again for the podcast!
I know. This whole interview made making-art sound like so much fun.
Once art becomes work (either paid or unpaid) it can lose its joy if you’re not careful. This was a great reminder of the way it’s supposed to be!
I struggle with keeping art fun on such a regular basis! It’s so easy to get bogged down in the “I have to make something good” or “I need to get something amazing for my portfolio done now” that it’s easy to forget why you started drawing in the first place. I have to constantly remind myself that I draw because I love it, and find the things that make the less-fun stuff fun again.
Yes! I drive myself harder than I should as well. I have to stop and remember that I love creating things. And when hard days come, it’s the love of creation and the story that I’ve built that helps pull me through!
Maaaaann!!!!! Another favorite!! This was absolutely beautiful and inspiring! What hit me the deepest was when Claire talked about trying to find a place of joy when you work on your art, that just hit me right in the feels, man!
I always end up finding myself in a place of desperation where I’m like yelling at myself to draw and my drawings end up stiff and rushed and you just see the pressure and fear in each line. It was a good reminder that it’s a treat to be drawing and also remember that pressure is not always a bad thing, like what Chris also mentioned, that being professional is doing the best at the time you have.
Ah just, so many good moments! This is helping me process so much. Thank you guys, just thank you thank you thank you!
Elly – Every time we talk I wish we were in the same room so I could just give you a hundred high-fives in a row.
You are THE. BEST.
Haha aw man, thank you! You guys are the best!
Next time I’m in LA, we can arrange that high-five meeting! Our arms are gonna get pretty tired though ahahaha!
Elly!
Hope you’re feeling super inspired and empowered now and just go and do awesome art and then tag me so I see because you rock and I love to create long sentences because I’m always so hyper.
Ugh fear in the lines! I hate when I can look at something I’ve done and see the struggle. I draw entire comic volumes at once then go back and ink. So coming back to a page I struggled with a month or two later I can look at the frustration and completely rework something in 10 minutes that took me hours of struggle before.
Why are we so hard on ourselves?!
I believe the way Claire found the spark for her story idea is the best. Taking ordinary life moments and turn it into story is the big goal. You can get there when understand what Brian McDonald said and find your golden theme, by understanding the struggle all people goes through life.
I use to believe that knowing trends and what audience consume was the way. You know, you may come up with an idea but won’t be thoughtful, won’t have soul, now I see I was wrong.
I’m starting to see the golden theme in ordinary situations and it is wonderful cause you have a plethora of inspiration, you feel limitless in terms of stories creations, genre and plots. Now I need to work hard to translate what I see into visual stories which is a huge journey.
A hug to all the community!
“I’m starting to see the golden theme in ordinary situations and it is wonderful cause you have a plethora of inspiration, you feel limitless in terms of stories creations, genre and plots.”
This is amazing.
It’s so cool to watch how we are all learning and growing together as a community!
Yes Lora! And let me tell you something, thanks to what you do guys, since the firsts podcast to this days with OA Live, I did change my mind frame and start to connect with life again, connection I had have lost for several years, a lost that prevent me to create stories or even know I wanted to tell something. But never be sorry cause that dark years of mine are now my source of ideas for new stories, LOL!
I’m so proud to be part of OA Live. Thank you.
Thank you to Chris, Lora, Justin and Claire for a great podcast! I love when Claire discussed her process for finding those little moments/answering the questions of the characters and how she would bring her sketchbook home to gather inspiration from her own daily routine for Rapunzel. The thing I love, love, love about Rapunzel are her idiosyncrasies and how they are played out through the story. Achieving that level of nuance and believability entails a lot of struggle and frustration but after hearing so many good points in the interview, I’m inspired to embrace the challenge.
I think that those tiny details make characters so much more believable and distinct from one another. I imagine that Flynn Ryder’s breakfast routine does not involve making eclairs from scratch!
Your gravatar is adorable, btw. Talk about putting character into a drawing!
Thank you Lora 😀 and haha yes I don’t imagine Flynn, a thief-turned-prince, will be making much from scratch any time soon.
I can’t resist but geek out and say I’m a huge fan of The Dreamer and super excited that you’re teaching at OA Live! It’s going to be an intense but fun-filled summer.
It’s going to be an amazing summer! The guest teachers start next class, so it won’t just be me and Chris all of the time.
So glad that you love The Dreamer! I’ve really enjoyed getting back into the groove on it. Missed everyone…
This podcast really helped solidify my story idea for OA live! I want to take the rest of the day off work and go start story boarding and thumbnailing lol. The concept of taking details from every day life helped fill in a lot of holes I was missing (even though the every day life things are going to get super mega exaggerated and monsterized).
I get lost zooming in on my pieces too, but since I’m trying to get to a hudson river level of detail or texture in my work it feels unavoidable. Its so hard not to loose focus on the overall composition while I’m working on small elements even with the navigator open in another window.
In “Invisible Ink,” Brian McDonald talks about balancing feminine and masculine elements in your story. These quiet, character driven moments are the feminine, the action is the masculine. A great story balances both.
Maybe that is what was missing? Good luck and we can’t wait to see what you’re working on!
It wasn’t so much the quiet character driven elements that was causing me problems. I’m using OA Live to improve my environmental concept art portfolio so I’m intentionally trying to tell a story with primarily with environments and inanimate objects. So the main character in my story is going to be a sailing ship. The big problem I was having was finding a way to create some human connection with the ship. After listening to the podcast I realized the weird abstract approach I was using for coming up with the story was way to complicated. What I should be doing is taking elements of every day life and finding their equivalent in the “life” of the ship.
Haven’t made it to the end of the episode yet, but I have to stop and say I love Claire’s advice about relating your life’s experiences to the lives of your characters! It’s usually a huge, time consuming struggle for me to figure out who my characters are, but starting with your own life and figuring out if your character’s experiences are similar or different makes so much sense! This may be a little weird, but I’ve started trying to get to know my characters in the same way I would another person and I’ve found that, while sometimes a character will open up to me right away, most of the time, they remain illusive or uncommunicative with me. It’s like I want to go straight to their deepest, darkest secrets, but my characters don’t trust me enough to tell me what they are yet. (Which actually makes a lot of sense; how many people have you met who’ve told you their darkest, most horrible fears and flaws the first time they talked to you?) But following Claire’s example and trying to relate to your character in safe, mundane ways first might help them trust you enough to open up about their inner struggles.
Oh man, I probably sound sooo crazy! :-p
We’re all cray-cray here. You’re in the right place. 🙂
Welcome to the house of cray cray.
I literally don’t know my characters until I start drawing them on the final page. This is from someone who asks their characters questions (as PaperWings suggested: http://chrisoatley.wpengine.com/pwp-8-ten-questions-to-ask-your-characters-to-make-them-more-dynamic-believable/), writes summaries and full scripts! Once I see them interacting with each other in the story, on the drawn page, dialogue changes, the character stories and intricacies change… You’re not crazy. We’re ALL crazy!
wonderful episode! Very very inspiring!
“it takes lots of work to make it look effortless” just nails it.
and for the zooming in photoshop, you can open multiple windows of the working file (window-> arrange->new), I usually have 3. 1 on the Yinova (cintique wannabe) and 2 on the other monitor at various zoom levels.
Thanks for the tip!
I just find out that I have to turn my characters in this very real imaginary friends 🙂
I think this is one of the best podcast about characters I ever heard, I feel like a kid again, and not ashamed at all of all the crazy stories my mind create on my dog walks.
Thank you, you people are amazing.
I get my best story ideas on long walks, too.
Awesome episode! You guys are all so great. And its great to hear people so excited about art and story–its like I’m not as weird as people seem to think I am!
I was lucky enough to have a couple awesome English teachers who taught me about the ideas of Joseph Campbell and Carl Jung. My highschool English teacher did a unit on the Hero’s Journey, and then we watched Star Wars as a class–it was fascinating. In college I minored in English and took a few classes from a teacher who I’d say was almost obsessed with Jung. She taught a whole senior thesis class (which she let me audit) on Jungian archetypes in pop culture, and we discussed movies like Batman Begins and, Inception, the Matrix, and the Da Vinci Code.
I really need to dig out my notes from those classes as I try to put my stories together. Great reminder.
The most encouraging thing to me was the comment that it takes so much effort to look effortless. This is something I struggle with, and its just good to know I’m not alone.
The Jungian typologies changed my life.
Understanding the way I am wired has made me a much more productive person, and a more authentic one. I don’t feel like I need to be any certain way, now. Which has made me a lot more comfortable in my own skin.
Oh yes, the “just a quick sketch look” is carefully placed decisive lines in reality. I also forget this 100% of the time. And I see you like fairy tales so you’re already awesome!
I love fairy tales… and stories in general. I feel kind of like the odd one out when it comes to comics because it seems like so many people grew up reading comics. I didn’t. I grew up reading novels (and fairy tales) and making fan art, and went back and forth between wanting to be an artist or an author. It wasn’t until college that some of my fellow illustration majors introduced me to comics, and I realized that I could be both.
I feel like I’m re-learning how to draw and sketch and work some of the stiffness out of my drawings. It definitely takes a lot of intention and experience.
I didn’t grow up reading comics either! Even now I’m SUPER picky about comics. So people talk to me about the latest from this person or that company and I can only nod and look them up later.
Definitely feel bad about that. But oh well! If it’s down my alley I’m sure I’ll read it eventually right? 😛
I’m super picky about anything I read, whether its a comic, a novel, a picture book, whatever. There is a fairly narrow category of story (etc.) that I enjoy, and if it doesn’t work for then I just stop reading. I can be pretty ruthless, but my time is worth a lot to me.
Related to that topic, I think there is a huge difference between something that is poorly done and something that just doesn’t work for a person. There are many comics/books/etc. that I’ve put down, but that doesn’t mean I think they’re bad necessarily. They’re probably great for somebody else, they’re just not for me.
Follow your passions!
I had this weird… “OMG! WHAT IF MY PASSIONS ARE WRONG?” Moment… does anyone else feel like that. What is UP with such self defeating moronic thoughts? There is no wrong! Snap out of it lady!
Awesome inspiring talk and OALive is AMAZING! Love it. Want to do all the things! 😀
Ha ha, I know. Why do we do that? My favorite writers didn’t. Jack Kerouac wrote about taking a drive with his friends… John Steinbeck wrote about a Sardine factory… Herman Melville wrote about a really long ship ride… Ernest Hemingway wrote about a fishing trip… J.D. Salinger wrote about failing out of school…
But all of these stories are authentic and enduring, they transcend the seemingly mundane subject matter because their writers had something profound and true to say about the world.
No but what if my passions are wrong?! Of course others feel that! I have the problem of not feeling very passionate about anything. I just have stuff I like and get excited about, but never felt that burning artistic desire to change the world with this one thing that I do.
Lora’s right. People write about dumb stuff all the time. but the subject isn’t the point. The story is. I guess we just have to beeee ourselves and tell true stories.
Maybe passion is just being really honest about everything we like to do?
I think a big part of the problem is that we are afraid to be passionate.
A lot of the ways people express their passion are seen as “childlike”. You’re supposed to grow up and become serious and boring. Fully immersing yourself in something and letting that joy shine through is “immature”.
I think we are passionate about things… bubut we forgot how to be. Or are afraid that if we rreally let it show we won’t be taken seriously. But you can’t do anything properly if you only “sort of” engage.
We have to allow ourselves to be children again. We have to let ourselves get excited and get lost in the moment.
But it’s hard to let go of all that social conditioning.
And I don’t think you have to want to change the world. You can just like making people smile.
I wasn’t particularly passionate as a kid either though! And I’ve always felt kind of strange about that. I think it has to do with my personality. I can get excited about things I like, but I always see the methodical side to it at the same time.
BUT I also have a fear of following the wrong path and having to start over too late. My comic was a big leap in just picking one of the things I enjoyed doing and putting my all into it. Maybe it’s Not my true path but I’m at least meeting a lot of lovely people with it 🙂
That indoctrination to grow up and be serious happens early though… and these days even earlier with kids getting formal lessons at preschool age. Even kids are getting told that play is a waste of time…. This is why I want to do homeschooling/unschooling with my daughter. I want her to hold on to that sense of wonder. But that’s a whole different topic.
I’ve just started reading Quitter, and he talks about REdiscovering your passion. He starts with the simple question of “what have I done in my life that I loved doing.” It’s a great exploration. And a Chris Oatley recommended read. 😉
Hey all,
this is an interesting concept (the OA Live) and I surely want to join this sooner or later. Yet I am kinda much dealing with all sorts of obstacles that relate to many different situations and topics.
However, this is all turning out very negative, so I will just throw in what I find positive:
– Finally, I have started the beta-phase of my personal project Forlorn Knights – Darksome Arising, which is chapter manuscripts solely meant to follow the plot (everything will be revised, possible plots extended, and each chapter gets proper illustrated pages, after the beta-phase is over, which might be at the end of 2019/2020). In between I am exploring, redesigning and defining the characters, creatures, and the world itself I have built, so that I have a proper stack of concepts when it is about illustrating the story itself. The Podcast is very helpful to plan more stuff regarding this activity.
In between I love to explore the world apart from the mainplot and sometimes, something from “outside” influences the actual plot to a certain degree.
– Being a lucid dreamer, I was able to meet my own characters (I even asked questions to characters I like from other authors) and this is just a great experience. And a bit scary. The responses are, well, sometimes unexpected.
– Brainstorming together with my dearest friend. Since I’ve met her, my story feels less depressing (in terms of having all sorts of moments instead of just one very sad emotion) and I have learned a lot about storytelling itself. This showed me how important it is to share not only the story itself, but also the creation process, when the story is about to grow and form, with someone that understands exactly how your personality works. (Which might be the circle of trust)
In any case, what has been said in the Podcast gave me some new thoughts to play with and I will surely have to listen to it again. It is filled with information, I think I should listen to it being less exhausted.
I wish I could just absorb every bit of information. I have found some ideas for my characters by looking at the ordinary aspects of my own life: No matter what might happen, there is a purpose for each of them. Something they like to do. Just like me – I can’t stay away from drawing, painting and writing for long. But when it is about a dearest friend, I will step away from what I like to do to be there for her or him as much as possible.
And this gave me an insight into many of my own characters: If there is something left for them to be there for, they might step aside from their usual activity in order to support what they want or need to support. And so, my theme of the story has come to life: “How far would you go to save and protect what is dearest to you?”
I hope it makes sense. I really need coffee now.
All the best to you all. Eventually our paths will cross some day *raises a sword and flaps down the visor*. Until then my hunt for plots continues.
Paper Wings returns! Yet more great advice here, I listened to it while shopping and forgot some of the things on my list as I was too engrossed 😛
‘Every piece of art should say something about your character’, this line made me go back and think on some of my recent character art and why I am dissatisfied – because the drawings show what my characters LOOK like, but say nothing about who they ARE. I know my characters and their personalities very well too, so I really need to exploit that knowledge in my drawings if I’m going to express that personality to my audience.
Also good advice on not zooming in too much, I’m gonna try that method of having the navigator up on a second screen to keep the whole art in focus.
Hey, George! So glad you liked the show!
Your comment about the look of the character (vs the humanity of the character) made me think of our “Character Design Goes Dee” article (which you might also find helpful).
Here’s the link:
http://chrisoatley.wpengine.com/character-design-goes-deep/
Amazing, after years on the site I’d never found that article before! Thanks for the link, Chris
That was a very enlightening moment for me too, George!!!
This was an amazing interview! I took so many notes and I’m going to bring as many of Ms. Keane’s little processes into my life as possible.
I love the philosophy that every piece of visdev needs to answer a question. Obviously this is probably supposed to be a thing where you come up with a ton of questions and answer them, but if you have ideas you can’t quite articulate in question-form, is it at all recommended to sort of play visual Jeopardy? The sketch/illustration/cave painting is the answer and you can understand what the question is from that – or maybe that has too high a risk to get confusing and muddy.
Thanks so much to Claire and the Paper Wings Posse for this interview!
Thanks, K! So glad you liked the show! …and yes, Claire’s point about “questions for your characters” is revelatory.
I think of the questions much after I’ve spent time with my characters K. The more I draw them, the more I think about aspects of their life. Everyone wears scarves in one area of my fantasy world. …they would take them off at night, I realized. What’s it like putting one on every morning? How do you tie the knot?
I usually find that the first questions I’m asking are ice breakers. The real interesting stuff comes later. The heart-wrenching gut spill after knowing someone for a few years 😛
You were right, Chris. I did get emotional in this podcast. It was so inspiring. This struggle between the advantages you get working in a studio vs. personal projects is very real and Claire’s journey parallels what I was thinking about this morning.
I was thinking, “Yes, I love animating with this studio and I’m excited to pitch projects here and explore the future of this career, but it’s tiring in a way and I wonder how long I can remain enthusiastic while grinding away in production mode … if worse comes to worse I can always find liberation in another personal, heart-guided project.”
Claire’s enthusiasm is so inspiring, her dedication, her good heart. There’s so much more to life than being part of a dream machine (or studio) and while I know there are some who find great fulfillment in the studio system, she seems even more liberated by this new chapter of her life … which may not have happened without her time in the grind of the dream machine.
OA live sounds so amazing! I’m considering enrolling just to be a fly on the wall, even though I already have my own short film in development and have to focus on it. I can’t wait to see what’s next for Oatley Academy students!
So glad you liked the show, Scott! And yes, you’re right on about the studios.
We strongly encourage folks with any interest in OA Live to go ahead and try it. There’s nothing wrong with taking the “fly on the wall” approach! Lots of people do.
Even if you can’t work along with the lessons right now, you will get TONS of amazing insight that will benefit your current project!
EEehh! After listening to the podcast, I feel like i have a ton of new questions to ask.
Claire’s transition from working to the studio to publishing is interesting and I’m so curious to know though how it’s been going for her. There is a ton of talk in the illustration industry about how the advances on books and getting lower and lower so I am wondering if it’s been hard for her to go from a full time position (I’m assuming she had a salary at Disney!) to a freelance position in a market that has been really rough.
I’ve actually had to do the exact opposite: I’ve been doing children’s books and freelance for a long time, but because books pay almost nothing anymore in Canada, it’s impossible to make a living off them, so I’ve had to move on to something different but stable (concept art in video games). And I cannot say it’s been easy. Love doing games, but not as much as doing books. The calling is strong but I can’t possibly go back to living with less than minimum wage.
So I am wondering if she’s dealing with something similar? I beleive the US market is very different, but maybe she has also affected her.
I’m so inspired to take out my sketchbook and go sketch outside right now! Thanks guys! 🙂
Annie – That’s all I wanted to do after listening to Kevan’s final edit of this episode – just go sketch until I drop!
Hey there, Annie!
Have you considered joining OA Live? It’s affordable and super cool. Also there are a fair few episodes that will be solely on the topic of how to make a living from your art and all sorts of strategies. Look into it, it might give you some insights. 😀
Hi Maria!
I’m already signed up on OA Live since last month actually.
The thing is I already make a living off my art (I have been for 12 years now. 🙂 ), so I really wanted to join OA Live just to force myself to spend some time on my own project. There is a discussion in the forum about Kid Lit, but very little people have been sharing their thoughts about the situation in the book market right now. After making books for the past 4 years, I’m not sure it’s a matter if insights unfortunately, more about how children’s books should be tackled differently when people buy less and less books (and because of this publishers are cutting down on advances drastically since the last few years). Since I’ve been doing all of this very much alone on my side without talking much about it, I’ve started voicing my concerns more and more and I really want to hear more about what people are going through right now in the Kid Lit world. I guess listening to the podcast brought these concerns back on my mind again! ahah! 🙂
I haven’t even listened all the way to the feature segment yet, but I just had to pause and comment. I’ve been listening to all the behind-the-scenes-operation-cray-cray-podcasts so I thought I already knew what to expect but BOY was I wrong. I can’t even begin to describe how excited I am to hear this glorious all-star lineup of teachers!! It’s like the most perfect artist-version of the Avengers one could imagine. I’m not sure I’ll be able to participate in this first run of OA live, but just thinking of others getting to do it thrills me beyond belief. You’ve really knocked it out of the park, guys. I’m incredibly happy to hear all of this :’)
Wow, thanks, Olof! We are so happy to have such a stellar line-up of great teachers for OA Live!
And please write support if you need any help deciding whether now is the time to enroll. If it’s a time issue, you certainly don’t need to worry – everything is recorded and if you enroll for Season 1 you will have access to everything so you can go back through the lessons.
We love your insights and positivity. It would be great to have you join up – but no pressure!
Super exciting podcast. Fell in love with some of the ideas that were but forward. Definitely going to try and start recording my dreams, however mundane and boring. Their might be some good stuff there!
Love Loras idea about characters having conversations I imagine some really interesting things will come up amongst the chaos.
Some really goood take aways from this.
Super pumped about OA live
Awesome. Thanks, Andrew! So glad you’re pumped about OA Live! Good to know we aren’t the only ones! Ha!
Gosh I loved this interview!
And what the heck I’m so glad the cray cray curtain is being pulled back for everyone to see Oatley Academy Live! So far, just connecting with people on a deeper level than replies in the comment thread (which in itself is also wonderful) has been amazing. But the lessons have been so insightful and well taught that it’s making me really take a deeper look at how I develop characters, story and even how I handle my public online persona and ACTUALLY CHANGING. It’s not just a sit around and ruminate on these things but how can we practically change what we’re doing to make the world better through art and story…
A couple takeaways from today’s interview:
On a purely aesthetic design side, I agree that zooming waaay in to “better” control my line weights can ultimately do more harm to my drawing or painting. Our designs should work as a whole-not just parts and it’s much easier to lose control of that when we try to control all the little minute bits piece by piece.
On a story level, Claire’s insight into living in her character for some time before forcing the drawing was such a good exhortation. Ive been getting too rushed (internally-no real external motivator on that) to finish a drawing on the story I’m working on that I end up having to go back in and repaint or redesign elements just because I haven’t asked those real life questions of my character! So good, thanks guys…
Now I’m stoked again to work on my buddy rather than just my character design for that thing I’m working on.
I saw some of Chris Ware’s original pages from Jimmy Corrigan in an art gallery once and they are enormous.
He does all of his own hand lettering, and he draws traditionally because he said that when you draw on the computer, you can’t see the entire page as a single piece of art. And the entire composition depends on the rest of it.
I wish I had the leisure to spend the time it would take to draw my pages that way, but his reasons were insightful. I’ve thought about it a lot since.
Oh Lord, Chris Ware’s comics are literal artifacts that will make peoples of the future think we were way smarter than we are.
That being said, the time crunch really does exist and zooming in from time to time really does help me get those details on point on the computer screen.
I’m doing a series of 26 illustrations right now and I think I’m going to try to employ the little-no-zoom rule to keep the designs feeling stylistically consistent in their overal shape and linework. Wish me luck.
What a great interview! You guys sounded like you were having so much fun.
I love Clair’s artwork. I can’t wait to buy her book.
I thought it was so interesting how she came up with her story. A combination of her lack of sleep, her hopes for her daughter, ideas from a book she was reading, and experiences from work all came together for a great story idea.
I also really liked her comment about letting a character run free for a while. Good advice.
We were!
I’ve been having some problems with sleep lately and I could so relate to that point. It is amazing to see how she took that struggle and turned it into something beautiful, inspirational, and educational in a sense.
That same struggle has just been making me grumpy. 😉 Time to readjust!
This has got to be one of my favorite Paper Wings episodes! I loved every single minute of it! Thank you Chris, Lora, and Justin for hosting this one with Clare. Truly inspiring! I hope she succeeds and prospers in everything she sets her heart and mind to.
It is so awesome to hear Claire share the secrets to making your characters come alive and having a more powerful impact on the viewer. Based on her observations, that of her great father Glen Keane, and Eric Goldberg among others, it feels to me that it helps to ground your character by adding that extra spark of reality to strengthen the character’s personality.
On top of that, having a relationship with your character as if they’re an actual person/creature in real life is a thoughtful revelation, like Claire’s connection to Tangled’s story by bringing in her own life experience. She looked within herself and her environment and infused what she felt into Rapunzel’s character. That ritual really empowers you helping the audience to believe in your character, as if they’re actually watching them or talking with them in the experience of the movie or your book.
That is so much fun! Listening to this, I feel deeply connected to my own childhood perspective with my own imaginary characters and my favorite movie characters. Great times! I believe that sense of creativity and imagination as a child growing up gives life to your work in such a bigger way than conventional approaches that makes you stronger as a creator.
I really enjoyed this, thanks so much to all who are involved for doing this.
Hello Stephen!!! I really enjoyed reading your comment. So well thought out.
I also believe your childhood has such a huge impact on your work… and I also believe it’s super important to keep your inner child alive and well fed.
😀
Why thank you Maria! And YES! You got it.
Your childhood has a huge impact on your work, and I do think it is upsetting when I hear that truth being criticized, almost demonized by professionals who aren’t creating material that is that suitable for children at such a young age. That’s something I experienced in art college, and it was hard to stay true to myself when I was going through having to face that every day. When I turn on the television or even browsing for content on YouTube or even Vimeo, I see a lot of material that I feel violates the personal privacy and the mental, physical safety for children and their families.
No matter what you create, art has power. What you do you intend to do with that power? Stories communicate something, characters share experiences, plus we live in that as artists creating it and viewers experience that while watching it. We have an advantage knowing we can add value into our work feeding our way through all the noise, something that is amazing and so special that people who are looking for originality can look up and feel touched and moved by what we create on our own. We have the power as creators to do that.
Claire Keane is a shining example who had experiences and emotions to share in creating her book, but there is great symbolism to dreams and the exploration of the world that pulses within the heart of a child that is so touching just looking at the art.
I think being able to do your best in the face of criticism alone leaves a mark of maturity in you taking command of what you dream of and keep that alive within you. No one can take that away from you, and if you can keep yourself directed to achieving what you hope to accomplish, editing just enough to tell your story the best way possible, there is no limit to what you can do.
I also want to say just how pleased I am with OA Live.
The people are knowledgeable, positive, and (most importantly) willing to help. The people in the community are all ACTIVELY supportive of each other. It’s like a breathe of fresh air.
In fact, it’s been so good for me, that I actually have written down a number of story ideas (besides the one I want to focus on for OA Live) and character concepts. Before my exposure to the OA Live community, I had not had a story idea since enrolling in art college. Not one.
It like that part of my brain was put to sleep and has woken up, and it feels very right. I’m either reading, writing, or drawing something everyday now.
I’m excited to see where this road takes me and I would recommend it to anyone reading this post.
Cheers!
Hey Sarah! So good to see you here too 😀
We are so excited for OA Live as well. Just the response we’ve been getting and the amazing bunch of people that have enrolled (such as yourself) it’s enough to make your head spin. I feel so pumped after each session! So HAPPY you are riding this cray cray adventure with us!
Aaaaahhhh! I want to echo what Maria said Sarah!
I’m excited for everybody who is feeling that creative spark for their projects and I can’t wait to see how they develop-my own included. This is going to be an excellent six months!
SUCH A GOOD INTERVIEW! I had miss you guys so much!! haha Love Claire’s process of finding the character, let your character run and have fun without all the rules and structure of storytelling! It’s like hanging out with coworkers after work, you get to see the more private part of them you’d never see in the work environment. Just letting them BE in the moment without doing anything, and finding the personality in the little and ordinary moments.
I loved what she said about everything can be great if we stop correcting ourselves all the time. It’s SO exhausting to expect a masterpiece of every single painting, drawing and story we create. It just leads to self-doubt in our skills. its those moments where we just step aside and let our spirit manifest itself through our hands we call inSPIRation.
“It took me four years to paint like Raphael, but a lifetime to paint like a child.”
Anyways, got a little romantic there :0) great podcast guys! I look forward to the first lesson of OA Live today! 😀
Hey Abraham!
I like romanticism so keep it coming 😉
You know, it is very exhausting to expect a masterpiece. I remember a few podcasts back (can’t remember if it was a PWP or an artcast) someone mentioned the concept of keeping your ideas so secluded that you didn’t want to work on them till your skills where the most awesome ever. And how this behavior ultimately lead to doing nothing. It changed my point of view… I was so afraid of ruining my story, the one I had been coddling for so long, that I was just not attempting anything. I’d rather have a story to share than an ideal masterpiece!
Hey Maria!
That’s so true! I’ve put on hold projects because I felt I was never gonna be able to come up with anything better! So to “protect” it, I shelved it and decided wait until I was amazingly good and rich and famous to produce it the right way. The core of all these expectations, is fear. Fear of not being good enough. And like Chris said in one of his art casts “No, you’re not good enough, nor am I… and we never will be.” It’s such a great relief to realize we’re all in the same journey! 🙂
“we’re all in the same journey!”
So true Abraham! It’s so great to see how true that is when getting all these awesome creative people in one place!
Loved this episode. So much explaining of the many intangible things artists feel through creating. It’s so hard to describe things, and often I don’t know how to explain my processs, so I’m glad that Claire was able to shed some light on hers. I loved hearing how Once Upon A Cloud came to be, even the bit about shopping around production houses. Very interesting things to consider especially as I develop my own personal projects through OA Live. So amped for the weeks to come!
Ps- awesome end credits music.
It seems like I’m very late to the party. When I started listening to this it had 4 comments! Now there’s a hundred… kinda crazy how fast people listen to this (crazy but totally expected coming from the awesomeness that this show is).
Unrelated random comment: I LOVE Claire’s voice. She sounds like a very cool fairy… like a fairy of artistic inspiration or a muse… her voice matches her art. *-*
Anyways, I loved this show!!! You guys where in the zone… I particularly felt connected when she mentioned the getting-away-from-photoshop. I feel so much better when creating away from the computer as much as possible (better for my health too). It’s so important to have those moments of pure creation, unbridled by technology. I’m not there yet when you guys talk about the fundamentals but I do get an inkling of what it would be like.
Also loved how she found Rapunzel and looked into herself. Much like in real life acting, you imbue your character with your own personality.
Finally, I really loved the chit chat on Once Upon a Cloud… particularly the way she let the story inform the medium and not the other way around. You can tell that the thought process was the most important part.
Fascinating stuff, guys! KEEP ‘EM COMING!
Hear hear Maria!
Stoked to listen to your passionate voices again 🙂
Very inspiring podcast again, love to hear about the once upon a cloud creation process. I agree with Claire who talked about the risk of losing the “organic spontaneity” going digital. I think the traditional/analogue techniques have a life in themselves that is really hard to replicate through a computer.
Anyway thanks gang, awesome as usual!
Hahaha! I love how giddy you all were talking about OA Live. It IS that exciting! It’s so great to feel it in all of the energy of the OA team. It made me giddy and excited while I was listening, sorting laundry!
OA Live has been so great for me. The content conveyed, the hard hitting questions asked, the FANTABULOUS atmosphere of energetic positivity. It all makes me feel hopeful about reaching for my dreams more actively. Even getting to know what my dreams are again.
I especially have appreciated all the experiences and insights about balancing art and life that have been shared. I can’t wait to hear from Jason Brubaker on the topic. I can SO relate to just how important sleep is when in the zombie land of little babies. It’s one thing I don’t look forward to when our #4 arrives. 🙂
Great podcast! Makes me all the more jazzed about growing with OA Live! It has been an honor and a pleasure to be part of it so far.
Truly inspirational chat. I really loved hearing Claire’s ideas on inspiration. I know personally I find a lot of clarity and character decisions while going on walks and unwinding. Also I can relate to that gut feeling when you know you have to leave a great team to follow your dreams, hard life decisions that are driven by your passion are always the right decision. Can’t wait to also get my teeth stuck into OA live 🙂
Wow, great post. Seriously.
It was amazing how for Claire in her book ‘Once upon a time in a cloud’ evolved from a place that was very personal for her. Probably not explaining this well, but her need for sleep, the lack of it and her seeking out how to get sleep started to become her story. This so enlightened me into thinking that your personal story is by far the biggest catalyst for longevity in your pursuit of finding maybe your voice. And a story worth telling. A story that will resonate with an audience because you care enough to fight for it. That it matters.
And I know that I have read that before, but to be so poignantly reminded – awesome and wow!!! And that whole segment on Rapunzel and what would she be doing in her room for 18 years – priceless. Re-listen, oh yes!!!
Stephen Sheredy, call out to you. Definitely relate to what you are saying about connection to your childhood. Oh man, there’s another post in and of itself. Thanks for that, very insightful.
One more thing, I promise. It resonated with me also regarding been present. Claire mentioned about yoga, meditation. Chris about taking the dog for a walk. This is something I need to have built intentionally into my life. Ooooh, all such good stuff.
Thanks guys, awesome podcast. On to home work lesson 2. Anyone here not doing Oatley Academy Live – do it!!!! It is awesome.
Love the part about having a problem with drawing an arm or hand and stepping back to realize that it was the wrong pose or action in the first place. BEEN THERE!
This was such a beautiful and inspiring podcast! My favorite part was how Claire discussed finding inspiration and answers to questions about the characters she was working with in places, that to most people, would be mundane and uninspiring (like sitting in traffic). It just goes to show you that some of the most inspiring things are the things that we often overlook or take for granted. I’m definitely going to keep that in mind as I continue to develop my own characters and personal projects.
Thank you Claire for sharing your knowledge in this episode of the podcast, and thank you Chris, Lora, and Justin for always creating such wonderful content for us to enjoy!
This might be one of my favorite podcasts. Aside from the conversation and advice, I felt an emotional impact just listening to Claire’s voice. Her voice sounds really genuine and has this …I guess quietly optimistic quality. I can’t really explain but hearing what she said inspired me not just in art and work, but just in general.
Found this site a few weeks ago and I am absolutely in love with what you guys are doing.
Another great podcast, I’ve been consistently listening to them at work. AMAZING!~
I love learning and improving myself as much as I can so I’ll be joining ‘The Magic Box’. I am an illustrator from New Zealand, can’t wait to meet all of you!
So awesome to hear- welcome, friend!
I have listened to your show for some weeks now and i must say, this is the best site i have discovered in years. This is because, it has a great community with so much Honesty and positivity.
And, WOW… another great Pod cast and very inspirational. Thank you Chris, Lora. Justine and Claire for putting this show together.
This might just be my favorite interview thus far! The energy and how excited everyone is just shines right through it and makes my day a little brighter. c:
And oh my god, the talk about analogue vs digital drawing, you’ve no idea how much I feel that. 8I Heck, I bought my Cintiq just because I wanted my digital art to have the same amount of energy, motion, and passion that my analogue drawing has and I thought it was because of the way I draw, not because of the tools I use but after a small time of more organic art, it went straight back to me working with the cintiq like I’d do with a screenless tablet. It’s why now I rarely sketch digitally or, if I do, I’ll try to keep zooming as close to zero as I can.
And i, too, have a tiny cintiq. :I And gosh do I now wish I had a second window.
I’s say, though, that the main reason I zoom around digital pieces is because every second update in cintiq completely screws over the tablet and makes the lines jitter in a weird way. The second last update seemed to fix that for the couple of months before the current update, which made the lines go so bad I had to quit using the tablet just to keep myself sane.
–
Also, you might recall me from a few months ago, posting that you helped me find the courage to apply for a job and getting accepted immediately. I thought I should update about that, because working here is a strange mix of joy and anxiety that I wish I’d hear other people’s experiences about.
Thing is, my boss loves my work. She has full trust in that I can deliver when asked to, that my work is high quality and all that, but… It doesn’t sell. I’m literally the only person here whose work brings in no money, and it’s eating me from inside! And I just want to tell people that I probably shouldn’t be drawing anything, but they keep insisting that I’ve nothing to worry about and ask me for more material. I just, I don’t know what drives people to tell me my work is any good while at the same time I have all the proof needed that it’s not good for anything.
I thought this job would be something that’d boost my self esteem even a little but honestly, I can’t recall the last time I felt so much like I’m just not cut out to be an artist.
I just wish so hard I could hear some experiences of people who’ve gone through this and ended up somewhere, anywhere, with art because this is starting to affect my mental health in a very negative way.
Thanks for a wonderful interview, all the love to everyone involved, and sorry for being so negative. +__+
Hello there, I’d like to respond to this especially last paragraph of your comment, if you don’t mind.
I know how it feels to not generate enough interest and throughout time analyzing myself, I think it is because we didn’t find the right group of people, or clients, that might be interested in the work. Another thing is that, in my case, I tend to lose interest very quickly if something becomes a trend and I always try to do something “own”.
When I am honest to myself, I also think that my characters, at least when I draw or paint them, lack “character” as they are not shown the way they are, rather just posing in a standard pose or maybe I haven’t figured out the right “thinking” as to how a character should be portrayed and designed to generate a personality. I tend to think very complicated and when I see other people’s work, I understand what makes their work so cool. I think “Ah man, that is so simple but so good!” Trying to apply that simple thinking (and by no means I want to say that simple thinking equals bad or thoughtless ideas) I get caught within my own thinking process. As mentioned above, I tend to lose interest quickly and I love to dig deeper, and deeper into my thoughts – which might be what kills an idea very quickly. I need to know why I have that feel that I have to dig deeper than it needs to be, this is one of my tasks for this year and probably longer. (Eventually my lifetime)
But over time, I have found a client who loves the way I paint dragons (I love dragons and I always draw or paint these somehow, they are a big part of my own worldbuilding as well). So as I always drew and painted dragons, eventually that client discovered and loved exactly the work I am doing. So I got hired for illustrating his covers, where dragons play a major role of his story. Certainly, according to this client, my dragons have a unique personality to them. And I need to know why exactly that is the case, because I have never thought about it that much. So I guess, maybe it is because I deeply love dragons that they automatically have something interesting to them. Maybe.
The thing is, I guess, that there might be many reasons as to why people like you, or me, or others, struggle to find the right group of those that are interested in the work. For myself, as I do not know your situation and the way you want to express your ideas, I can say that these three points might be my issue:
– Trying to make everything somehow unique and unusual, although this is not a bad thing, the masses of people will not be interested
– Lacking the right “portrayal” of my own characters, at least there is muuuuch space for improvement for myself, and overthinking stuff very quickly
– Not finding the right group of people. It sounds easy to say “Just make yourself noticable and be active”, but it’s rather difficult to be seen, because the right people have to find us. At the same time no one can find us if we do not keep being active and if we do not know where to find the right group, our work won’t generate interest. It’s like an endless loop.
Maybe this is a good question for you: What might be the difference between your work and the other’s work? I know it is easy to ask that, whereas seeing the true reason for how people react is rather difficult to figure out.
But I know how you feel. I once have been close to just giving up and doing stuff only for myself. But Chris said that giving up is no option at all, so I tried – and found my recent client by staying persistent.
Do you have something you deeply love that gives you energy and drives your creativity? Maybe you can use that passion to put emotion into your art. With that being said, I need to figure this out as well. I know that there are things I love, and also why I love them, but also feel that I am only scratching the surface of what I am capable of. And I am sure that you need to unlock that hidden source of creative energy within yourself as well. Believe me, it is true that giving up is no option.
I certainly have no real solution, but maybe we are able to have a small conversation here in the comments. And maybe we can figure something out that helps you to move forward. 🙂
– David
Hi David, thanks for the response! c:
Before I say anything else, I want to answer the question in the end because yes I do!
It’s worldbuilding, or more precisely the mechanical stuff. I just finished spending two full months studying astro- and geophysics to make sure a planet I’ve been working on would be plausible in every way(it is! Yey!). I can’t recall being bored even once during the process, and today I got lost doing more calculations and checking things when I was supposed to only collect a few things in a folder and show you what I mean with worldbuilding. 😀
Concept art is basically what got me into drawing in the first place(I started out as a writer), and it’s what I do to relax myself an so on. But, it’s not the kind of concept art people look at in awe, you know. All that cool stuff with backgrounds and people doing stuff and things going on and cool lighting etc, that’s not something I do. I do anatomy studies and creature sheets, write out tons of info about the biology and behaviour of a creature, but the interesting(to others, at least) stuff… I dunno, it’s just not my thing.
About the three points you listed as your own issues, here’s my relation to those:
– I prioritize function and plausibility over unique / unusual, which I guess results in a lot of “bland” designs. :U Some of my things are thought of as “just X with Y attached” and some are “what the fuck have you been smoking?” -level weird. Idk, whatever works I guess?
– Same here, but with environments, clothes, and objects. I just can’t seem to make them look the way I want and environments especially are a thing I really need to work on.
– That’s one I’ve been hearing a lot. Every time I’m down about my stuff, people tend to say that I just haven’t found the right audience. :I It’s frustrating because I honestly don’t even know who my audience should be. Are there people out there who’re genuinely interested in the mechanics of a fictional world? I have absolutely no idea.
I spent a long time yesterday thinking about what the difference could be and honestly… I kind of feel like it’s everything. I feel like everyone else does energetic and interesting pictures with a lot of meaning whilst I’m stuck trying to render things in a way I see them inside my head.
I actually asked a friend about it, too, and she said this: “I still think the most fitting answer to that original question goes along an easily recognizable, well defined style that “speaks” to people on a personal level” which I think I have to agree with.
Ugh, I feel like this is awfully messy, but it’s early and I’ve a hard time putting my thoughts in order. +__+ Sorry!
PS: I put a link to some of my concept stuffs to my name if you wanna check those out(it’s okay if you won’t, though!)
Hi there, i wanted to say hi there, i am a new listener.
Great info so far and look forward to catching up
*squee* Just listening to you talk about OA Live got me so stoked!~ This is such an awesome idea you have Chris, Laura and Justin and I’m so glad for you that you were able to get together such amazing people such as yourselves and those you mentioned to teach it. I’m also grateful that you will put the OA Live class videos in an archive so others who aren’t enrolled in this class can eventually see and listen to them and glean the precious information they hold.
Listening to Claire talk was a treat too. I agree with you that her advice on creating a competitive visual portfolio is one of the best. It was fun hearing how she thinks and approaches how she makes her art, how she researches and how one thing she did smoothly led to another entirely by luck and her open mind. Which is something I need to remember myself, to have an open mind about things. Too often I don’t consider the little things in life that Claire was mentioning helps the artist better understand their character. That is such an important thing and I just gloss over it most of the time. That was interesting too to hear about how her children’s book idea and meeting an agent came together for her. Thank you for this, this is podcast a gold mine of info and is so encouraging to listen to. Keep up the good work! 🙂
Just want to say thank you guys Chris, Laura, Justin, Claire.. Wow. Yes… Even the other artists comments, encouraging!!!
Story: I was in my meditation bubble in a coffee shop, and as I was listening to you guys, I was thinking about my story that I’ve been working on for 3 years. And as someone who hates the crap out of backtracking and moving forward at automated robot snail mode, I found that I did have to renovate & detonate. I didn’t have to fully detonate and fully renovate, So the answer became clear in that, that I can still do my style that sings to my soul (that it doesn’t have to die) and quickly portray my story in funny little Doopey doodle storyboard panels. Mindsplosion inception moment, tragedy and comedy came together within the answer to my characters motive, smothered in struggle. The story came out within what I’m struggling with, and other artists as well. And as that became clear to me, you guys started talking about finding the joy within it, the interest, and not going into the artwork as a task that needs to be completed, OR ELSE… Or it needs to be the most perfect work ever, OR ELSE. To know that professionals use their vulnerable sensitive organic selves to boost their visual communication. Eureka! Also, the zooming in talk, getting tight, I’ve been doing this for so long. I feel that my best work comes from me moving on from medium sized mystery strokes that look interesting, even if it doesn’t look like how I intended. I need to give up on trying to fix every *bleepin* mistake. That yes and… Is happening, I believe. Yes and … I will run with that magic. Cheers and excuse my erratic ranting.
Lora* not Laura
Awh! I missed listening to you guys! Found myself goofy-smiling through the podcast while driving to work. It was ridiculously inspiring listening to Claire talk about her process and Rapunzel. I teared up several times because Punzie means so much to me and I connect with her so deeply. Claire is such an idol for me as an inspiring concept artist/ illustrator. Good, good stuff. I can’t stop gushing. ☺️
Man, I used to use a cut-off sock as a handguard too. Then I got a smudgeguard and feel much classier. ;P
This episode. I could say a lot, but I want to go through all the other comments before I say too much, haha. I really loved how you all were talking about falling in love with your characters, because that’s my favorite part of story writing. Like Lora, my characters manifest themselves very strongly when I get some time alone; oftentimes I’ll be darting out of the shower to scribble character interactions down in my notebook as fast as I can! I’ve learned that when your main characters start to get quiet, and the secondary characters start to pipe up, that’s the time to start writing, because you’ve learned what you need to know and if you fall in love with the supporting cast too, you’ll be tempted to put in all sorts of fluff!
During my commute to school, I always walked by a raggedy neighborhood and a local market that sat right next to each other. All sorts of suspicious characters, trash littered on the sidewalk, murky water flowing down into the drains… Amidst that, I almost always came across two old men sitting on the sidewalk, playing chess. Gave me an initial idea for a story that I’ve yet to build.
More than that, passing through all these different hawkers selling all sorts of goods on the street, it made me wonder what their lives might be like, and if they had any magical secrets nobody knew about.
Just another reason to always keep your eyes opened when you’re out and about. We tend to get so wrapped up in where we’re going, that we forget to look around us and see what’s happening.
Anyway, great episode, guys! And I love the announcement! 🙂
That is so true! Everyone has a story, but few listen those stories. The more we spend staring at our phones and not looking around the more amazing stories we will miss.
🙂
Love the podcast guys! The chatter between you all is really funny and genuine. It’s so great getting perspectives from so many different creative heads!
Keep up the great content!
Brilliant, inspiring podcast as always! 🙂
On the subject of ‘zooming in’ and losing peripheral vision, I find that reminding myself to sit up straight and a 2nd monitor for a 2nd window to display your WIP in full screen helps!
Nice interview!I remember enjoying all the little details in Rapunzel’s house while I was watching the film- it was obvious someone had put a lot of thought and effort into them and know I know who that was!
Also some interesting thoughts about process- as learning happens (for me anyway ) through experience, it’s no good waiting until you can produce something perfect- you have to just go out and DO stuff. And hope it’s halfway tolerable when you get to the end.
This is a special pod cast to me now! It was powerful and was filled with a lot of inspiration, but also because of this podcast, I joined The Oatley Academy Live! and I am having a blast! (Still catching up on work, but learning a lot!) Thank you Chris! Because of these resources that you have worked so hard to share with us, I feel like I can finally pursue my passions in storytelling! Thank you! 🙂
Hello! I
loved this podcast – finally got to listen to it. So much good stuff discussed and said.
Also – I don’t know if somebody has mentioned this before or it’s a known fact, but regarding the zooming in photoshop: You can open additional windows for any file you work on. (like: http://pe-images.s3.amazonaws.com/photo-editing/dual-view/window-arrange-new-window.gif)
So you can have one window zoomed out showing the whole image and one where you work in detail. And obviously both update automatically. So you can use that instead of the navigation window 🙂
Curious, if OA Live will be open in Late Spring and Summer of 2016?
Just wondering as I doing college and work all together for this semester time right now. Summer would be open for more art time . 🙂