Like the design of the world of The BoxTrolls, Jenn Ely‘s life is full of quirky twists and turns.
Her wonderfully bizarre childhood involved multiple encounters with emus and alligators.
…and at an art school where students were jumping into giant cupcakes she had to find and fight for her identity as a commercial artist.
With stories like these, it’s no wonder she eventually got a job at Laika.
Listen To The Interview With Jenn Ely:
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Awesome Links:
Chris’ Interview With Sarah Marino
Share Your Thoughts!
Does being a misfit make you more creative?
…and what do you think of the interview so far?
Join the conversation in the comments below!
Hi Chris! Very interesting interview! Thanks for sharing. The only thing I wish you guys talked about as a conclusion to the interview would be Jenn’s experiences working for LAIKA. Otherwise, GREAT JOB!
Hey, Stathis! Oh, we will! Part 2 of the interview drops next week. We talked about Laika for an hour.
Great interview. Wonderfull story and can’t wait for part 2.
I think being a misfit really helps. Especially if you aren’t afraid of being a misfit. That way you can let yourself go and you don’t hold back. I always tried to hide it and act normal/cool. It’s seems hard being a misfit as a kid and on highschool, because in my eyes sadly it isn’t accepted by a lot of people (other kids, parents etc)… It’s hard to find that misfit kid when your older and used with acting like you aren’t.
You’re right, Mitch. This is one great thing about art education – it can empower a student to celebrate her/his own personal weirdness.
I totally know what you mean Mitch! Even as an adult it’s hard to be completely yourself in a fearless matter of fact way. As an artist, it can mean the difference in either finding your voice, or just jumping on a trend. It’s tough to overcome fear and anxiety and find your way to something meaningful.
Thanks for listening, and for the kind words!
Hilarious and insightful!
It’s such a privilege to listen about Jenn’s artistic journey and learn what informs her work and the way she found art in a context previously shielded to her. It resonates with me because fine art was the bias and emphasis during college for me too – but it taught lots of fundamentals that I continue to use. Jenn’s approaches to life drawing were responsible.
But what’s striking is how common it is to hear artists recall how they took commercial art for granted in their formative years because as “art” it wasn’t as apparent next to painting. But as you guys say, there’s an explosion of creative industries in our times, with our contemporaries being super connected today. I believe the perception of art will change for the better as emerging artists become increasingly validated and just follow their ambitions.
Anyway, really enjoyed the ArtCast, especially hearing about the frying pan / alligator incident. That scenario makes for a perfect cartoon. I wonder, if Jenn was a Loony Toon, which character would she identify with the most? She’d make a great loony toon!
Thanks a bunch, pals!
C
Thank you, Chris.
Wow. I think you are *exactly* right about how the perception of “art” will change due to infinite connection with those working in the commercial arts. That’s an encouraging idea… It can’t happen soon enough!
“Oatley Academy: The Animated Series” – Now that does have a nice ring to it… 😉
Thanks for listening, Chris! 😀
I completely agree with you, there really are SO many stories about people like us who thought art = fine art when choosing a career. I think you’re right that the real time connection we have to people all over the world now is really making a difference. Hopefully we’re one of the last generations to see possibility filtered by location/ in person experience:)
Hmmm… man that’s tough. Somewhere between Marvin the Martian and Bugs I think;)
<3
Jenn
Great interview – was listening to this while painting/colouring an image and really soaked up all the info.
Made me think about my journey as an aspiring artist. I grew up watching Saturday cartoons, reading comics…and all of this thanks to a dad who took me to buy my first comics and woke me up early Saturday mornings to watch The Animated Adventures of Batman on television. So I used to draw comics/cartoons for a large part of my childhood. Music and more ‘serious’ things got my attention later in my teens and I can’t of stopped drawing.
I doubted my ability and I lost my ‘love’ for it. It wasn’t fun anymore, because I wasn’t dreaming and coming up with my own fantasies. I was all too serious for such a long period of time. Eventually I had to decide on a direction to go study and picked Applied Design. Because I was so into music at the time and actually just wanted to play guitar all day I was also inspired by the awesome art on the CDs I was listening to. Funny enough I wanted to become a comic artist back then, even though I wasn’t really drawing but a part of me still had that yearning.
With no real proper illustration courses available here and no option for studying online (many years back) I picked something that was consider ‘art’ and would still be considered a job that pays. What I know now would have saved me tons of money and time. I was so frustrated with the school I studied at – my third year ended up being more fine arts than anything else and eventually I just pulled out. All that time I taught myself how to use the computer programs in order to create CD cover art and started looking for work.
Corporations were all in interested in my qualifications as were recruiters – a few years back that was still the mindset of many people here. I did the occasional freelance gig and after looking for work I finally found a position as Multimedia Designer. That was almost two years after I left college – in those two years I traveled, did odd jobs here and there – did short courses on Adobe Flash and Dreamweaver etc. However I was so fixated with getting a job and getting paid and out of the house that my mind was just in constant state of panic. I slept away hours of my days and I was just downright miserable – because I measured my self-worth based on being employed or not.
It got worse, because the job I eventually got was soul destroying – forward to where I am now I have a position as UI artist. It’s much better, but still not what I want to do with my life. Only in the last two years have I really got back to drawing and since last year I’ve been playing around with the Wacom pen tablet. I knew what I wanted to do with my life ever since I was a kid, but somewhere along the way it got mixed up. I feel a love for storytelling – through character art and environment design.
Currently working on a comic pitch and it just gives me such joy – thanks for the inspiration Chris and Jenn – I’ll make it someday, just gotta work hard and believe. Also Painting Drama 1 really opened my eyes to storytelling and realizing what you put in is what you get out. Seriously considering this mentorship program through The Magic Box.
Heino– thanks for sharing!!
Man, I can relate to so much of that! I think most people go through kind of a ‘lost’ period at some point after high school, sometimes more than one. I know I did. Trying to make dreams and reality line up, but also take care day to day living is a hefty task.
It sounds like you’re really finding your way back to your passion with your personal work! I think that’s amazing, and I’m so happy for you:) BTW– your dad sounds amazing:) It’s so great to have that support and enthusiasm when you’re young!
Hope to see you in applications! Best of luck with the pitch!
I’ll just add, Heino, that you are such a bright, positive and honest person, I have no doubt that you will figure this out. As always, keep me posted…
Haha, yeah he’s pretty cool 😛 Signed up for the mailing list so hopefully I’ll be able to join you Jenn. The work I’ve seen from you is very moving.
Thanks Chris, appreciate it – you’re a total inspiration and teacher. I’ll definitely keep you posted! I might need to pick your brain a little…sometime soon.
Oh man Heino,
It sounds like I’ve gone through what you have just in a more condensed time frame. I danced all around the idea of illustrating and storytelling in college, doing music and graphic design courses. It wasn’t until my final semester in school that I realized what I really wanted to do for a career. I’m just glad I found the Magic Box when I did, or it might have been several more years before I found an obtainable path!
Hey Caleb,
I know it sounds strange to say, but I’m glad to know I’m not unique in my situation! I think I got a little distracted by all my options – seeing as a bunch of them overlap. Especially because I absolutely love film scores as much as I love the art for the films. I’ve always tried to find a common thread between illustration and music, or better yet how I can combine my love for all these things.
That’s why I’ve been jumping in between creating art both visually and auditory. Studying Applied Design got me into things as Philosophy and Art History, which I didn’t have an affinity towards at the time. Apart from the Fine Arts part of the course I learned a lot about design-thinking which is an invaluable asset.
So all-in-all everything we do has its place, it’s just a matter of finding your core and then focusing on what makes it pulse. The Magic Box has definitely taught me the importance of collaborating and reaching out to fellow artists and growing together as a community. Before joining I was pretty much recluse artist. I find it awesome to read about other artists’ challenges and breakthroughs and to see their progress.
Hopefully through my journey as an artist I’ll be able to help people starting out and serve as inspiration – who knows!
Great interview, the alligator episode made me laugh. Jenn is awesome and funny, I’d love to have her as a teacher.
I really hope the perception of Art and artists changes with time.
I know for sure I made my mother change hers by pursuing an art career after a lot of years of her trying to make me reconsider it (At least 10 years). She was ok with me painting and drawing for fun when I was little, but as soon as I grew up and didn’t stop doing it she started worrying.
I was always a misfit (although I did have some friends and everyone liked me at school) because I was a vegetarian in a meat-eating country in a time when that wasn’t normal. I also preferred reading and painting (drawing too, but painting has always been my main interest alongside with sculpting) than playing with other kids. When my birthday party was over, no matter who was left (Family, close friends) I would always lock myself in my room and read the books I had gotten as gifts.
At age 12-13 my dad, I guess worried about how much I spent drawing, looked at one of my drawings and harshly criticized it. I just stopped drawing for years, it took my brother’s interest in furry art (which he passed on me) to make me pick a pencil and start drawing again at age 17. I still have that first drawing, and will always have.
To any concerned parent that’s reading this, if your son/daughter got bit by the art bug, it won’t go away. No matter how hard you try, it’ll always come back. Do your kids a favor and encourage them, art is as dangerous a pursuit as any other career. But, if they’re doing what they like they will succeed.
You are *so* right, Zhuria. The idea of stability has always been an illusion – as proven by the downfall of the industrialized economy.
Some folks (I was one of them, fortunately) saw this coming way back in 2001. For me, an art career didn’t seem any less stable as a bank career.
I remember specifically – when I told one of my friends that I was going to leave Ohio to move to Burbank, he “warned” me of how unstable the entertainment industry is… And he’s right. It *is* unstable.
The point is, the very next day, my friend who is a VP for one of the big-brand banks flew up to one of the corporate offices in Minnesota to fire 150 people in a single day…
I think I remember that anecdote from the first episode I ever listened. I was so naive at that time. Hahaha, good memories.
My mom realized that when both my bro and I didn’t have a full college education but both of us have good paying jobs that we enjoy.
Now she’s pushing my lil sister to finish highschool and then do what she wants in her life (my sis wants to be a writer).
I’m sorry to hear that you were discouraged! It’s so hard because I know that most parents who try to redirect their creative children are terrified of their kids being ‘starving artists’, they want the best for their kids. The thing is that we all have different interests, and it’s not the interest that should determine whether you will be successful.
It’s exactly like you said– there is struggle no matter what you want to do. Carving out a place for yourself in the world is tough. If instead of trying to redirect that passion, people focused on promoting work ethic, tenacity, and accountability in the individual, I think we’d see much better results.
Sounds like you managed to keep hold of your passion through it all. That couldn’t have been easy. Good luck to you– I hope your dad comes around too! Cheers!
Both of my parents realized some years ago that they can’t stop me from doing art (I changed career 2 times, first I was studying computer engineering, then maths teaching and now I’m studying art teaching) and my mom even encourages me to draw comics and self publish them.
My father is still aprehensive with my art career, he’s still afraid I won’t make it. I don’t share much of my art with him (most of what I draw would make him really uncomfortable), but he does (grudgingly) encourage me now. He still would have preferred to have an engineer daughter.
That’s so tough. You’ve shown a lot of strength going your own way, you should be really proud of yourself. You only get one life and you should follow your happiness as far as you can.
I’m so glad your mom is encouraging you, it sounds like she really turned a corner. Don’t be too sure about your dad wishing you were someone else– I doubt he full understands how his disapproval is making you feel about your relationship. You are who you are, and just because he disapproves of your career path (or what you draw), doesn’t mean he disapproves of YOU.
Keep your head up!
How many of you just youtubed “ostrich mating dance” ?
Haha!
It’s a dance craze! All the kids are doing the “Saucy Ostrich.”
Of course I did.
Of course! Though, it’s a little depressing to see an ostrich have better dance moves than myself.
hahahaha, what’s funny is I just did– and now I’m wondering if ours was just EXTRA aggressive… These guys are waving, but where’s the scary ground beating?! I just remember thinking how crazy strong their legs are.
Good morning, Chris!
Wonderful interview. It’s always encouraging coming here and hearing the artistic journeys your guests have taken. The main reason I find some encouragement is that I identify with a lot of what Ms. Ely felt regarding her art; not knowing what kind of work you could do with it, not feeling ‘worthy’ or having anything to add to the conversation, and ESPECIALLY feeling like an oddball among the groups of oddballs. I identify SO much with that anecdote about being next to the kid jumping in the cupcake and feeling like, oddly enough, maybe I’m *too normal* to be an artist. I’ve worried about that a lot, but like I said it’s good to know I’m not alone in feeling that. It’s even more encouraging that the artist conveying those feelings had a hand in Boxtrolls, what I think was one of the most gorgeous movies I’ve ever seen.
Fantastic work, Chris! Thank you, Ms. Ely! Can’t wait for part two!
Great points, Garrett. Well-put.
Hahaha, it’s such a funny thing to have to worry about eh? Though, jumping head first into a giant cupcake… doesn’t sound all bad;)
I am so happy to hear that you loved The Boxtrolls!! Thanks for the support!
Holy Smokes! Jenn and I have a TON in common… I was an Air Force Kid too and I went to one of those Avant Garde kind of brick and mortar art schools! This Artcast is one of my favorites. I laughed so hard! I loved the conversation about Art Schools as I have recently discovered I have a strong opinion about them now.
To answer the question about misfits, I think being a misfit requires you to communicate ideas that are different from the mainstream. This could mean that, since misfits must be creative to communicate abstract thoughts, art may come easier to them.
For me, unfortunately, I was such a misfit that I worried about fitting in. Unlike brave Jenn, I was the Air Force kid that wanted so badly to be a part of a group. So perhaps I stifled my own creative self in order to please my parents/family/friends. And this stifling actually didn’t end until after college.
SO glad that’s ended now and I can be as weird as I want without fear of being shunned or friendless. Which is also why I love OA so much.
What a fun way to start the day, Thanks Jenn & Chris! Can’t wait to hear the next part!
Great points, Britny. I think your misfit parable is pretty universal. I’m going to keep that one close at hand. I’m sure it’ll help to encourage and empower many future misfits.
Wow we DO have a lot in common!
I like your observations, and totally agree. It’s a shame that that communication can be blocked/ discouraged so easily. Our sensitivity can backfire, especially when we’re younger. It’s comforting to know that so many people feel like square pegs in round holes too;)
Oh gosh! That was so funny!! I was walking down the isles of the supermarket literally laughing out loud (and getting some pretty strange looks along the way)!
Jenn, your description of your initial experience at art school sounds just like mine. I’ve just finished my first term studying illustration and, by the sounds of it, we pretty much have to teach ourselves… I spoke to some year 2 students who claimed to have been taught nothing at all in their first year! I’m having to take (and pay for) life drawing classes elsewhere. Craziness. Your environments are absolutely stunning and such an inspiration.
To answer your question Chris – I hid my inner misfit until a few years ago and only felt comfortable creating art once I’d set her free… There’s definitely a correlation between the two.
Thanks for a great episode guys!
Haha. I edited a huge chunk of the episode at a neighborhood cafe and I sat there all day, alone, wearing my huge headphones, laughing out loud like a loon…
I’m excited to hear more about your misfit emergence 😉 Please keep me posted.
So glad you enjoyed it Kylie! Thanks so much for the kind words!
That can be so frustrating. Sounds like you’re taking initiative to get what you’re after though, which is great! It’s just so easy to come away with nothing if you don’t fight to get what you need:)
Kudos on letting your true colors out! <3<3
Hi Chris,
Great interview, appreciate the cal state Fullerton shout out!
I went there to study animation, got out with no debt and decent education.
Ended up working full time in the toy industry. Not quite animation, but there’s a ton of overlap in the disciplines so I never feel uncomfortable.
I recently got introunced to your podcasts and have been listening to them every morning on my way to work. It really helps to listen to such positive conversation during these long la commutes!
CSUF RULES!!! Cliff Cramp is a personal hero of mine.
I would love to talk to you more about your work in the toy industry. I have a friend who sculpts action figures and we’ve been wanting, for quite a while to do an episode about toymakers.
Any time! Cliff Cramp is a great teacher. I was in his digital illustration class.
Shoot me an email if your interested in talking toys, hopefully I can help!
You make toys!!?! That is awesome! I’ve watched videos on the process for action figures and was totally intrigued. Really cool stuff!
Really glad you liked the episode! Cheers:)
Hey Guys,
Great podcast as always! I can certainly relate to this topic. My HS teacher was was not supportive and I ended up going from Olympia, Wa to Arizona State U. After one semester, I decided to transfer to a professional art school.
So I applied to Cal Arts for animation and Cornish for design or fine art. Got rejected from Cal Arts, but I got in to Cornish and the adviser put me in fine arts dept. Once classes began, I started to drink the Kool-Aid and never looked back.
In order to teach at the college level you need a MFA, so I moved to NYC and worked the scene while applying for grad programs. New York Academy of Art gave me a scholarship and employed some of the best painters in the world, so I decided to go there.
You are both right, its not a good decision these days. When I moved in 05 and the economy and rent was much cheaper. I met my longtime girlfriend in New York and studied under some amazing artists, so i cant say that I regret it, but things could have been a lot easier.
Oftentimes, I wonder what would have been if I just moved to LA and worked the commercial scene. Now I’m living in SF and learning web design online so I can land a full-time job that actually requires some creativity.
“The system is broken.” Couldn’t agree more, they should at least adjust the curriculum. I should have been taught the entire adobe suite, and everyone should have a basic understanding of HTML and how the web works.
My advice would be to move to LA before NY, don’t sign up for a BFA before you understand the facts, and learn real skills on your own. Online is great, but don’t make art in a bubble, go out and meet real people and real artists.
FYI Wayne Thiebaud is pronounced without the d at the end. Hate to be that guy, but yeah…
Thanks again for sharing your journey!
Best,
Tim
Great comments, Tim. (I love Olympia, WA, BTW…)
Thank you for sharing your personal perspective. And, yes, the value of web design fundamentals increases daily.
Good to know re: “Wayne Thiebaud.” Thanks for letting me know!
Excellent advice, Tim:) I’m right there with you, I wouldn’t change my experience because I’ve been through and got what I needed in a round about way that molded me… but if I was deciding today, I’d likely make very different decisions.
Oh I am the king captain regent of mispronouncing peoples names;) Not the first or the last time, but nice to know the right way;) Thanks!
I don’t know if I was much of a misfit when I was little and I don’t remember drawing much what with all the ballet, soccer, theater and tea parties going on. I became de facto misfit girl when my family moved and I wrote stories to document my imaginary friends – since I wasn’t getting anywhere with making real friends. I really started taking art seriously when I was participating in my first study abroad because I realized how powerful a communication tool visual art was – and I had a fundamental need to communicate since being a mime wasn’t working so well.
I chose a brick and mortar art school because I didn’t know what my other options were. I knew I had to go to college because everyone had spent years saving for me – it was expected. I knew I didn’t want to go to the same art school as my sister. My parents were in favor of the idea but dictated that school had to be a direct flight since I refused to stay in state – not many direct flights out of Montana. The first school I toured gave me my first portfolio review and it was super harsh, so I was pretty sure that my chances of getting in anywhere great were slim. I wish I had considered my options more before starting school. I wish I knew more about the possibility of transferring schools. I wish I had taken more control and responsibility for my education earlier. I wish…
I found OA a year after graduating college. It showed me how incredibly important it is to have a teacher/mentor who believes in you and pushes you to do better and keep going. I started making friends with people just as crazy as me. I am so grateful for the people in my life who are positive and supportive. You guys rock!
Maybe misfits are more likely to be creative. I don’t think that means you can’t channel your misfit later in life if your childhood was less eventful than others. Sometimes it’s pushing yourself out of the box that makes you see the box for what it is and thus frees you from it. Some people get that earlier in life than others and that’s okay too.
Anyways, thanks Oats and Jenn for this fantastic podcast! I think it’s safe to say that this and Lora starting up The Dreamer postings again has made this birthday the best yet. Now for more CAKE!! 😀
I’m so glad The Dreamer is back! Lora has been working *suuuper-hard* on the story especially…
Wonderful perspective re: misfits. …and thank you for saying such nice things about OA. We do have a precious, precious community.
Beki!! Oh man I feel for little kid you! I know she’d be so proud of grown up you though, she is seriously excellent:)
Yeeeessssss! OA is so great because the students are SO positive and SO passionate. I’ve never seen anything like it. So excited to be a part:D
Hi Chris,
Great interview! leaving a lot to reflect on what brings fulfillment in our life. I can’t remember who said this quote, but it goes: “Unused creativity is not benign.” Whichever form this creativity takes, when forcibly suppressed, it can just ooze out in maladaptive emotional reactions like anger, passive aggressiveness, disengagement, depression, etc.
I definitively felt like a misfit back in high school being the nerd with weird, eccentric and “really uncool/lame” ideas. The only good reputation I had at that time was my drawings. But drawing/doodling/art could only be hobbies… so good thing I was a “nerd” and have secured myself a “real job that puts food on the table”, which I actually really enjoy. An earlier comment mentioned on how one’s love for art will creepy back up later in life, one way or another. I couldn’t agree more. I spend my days looking at human tissue under the microscope, and the beauty of the cell architecture combined with the special coloring techniques really compares to beautiful paintings.
The most “advanced” digital painting tool I have is my iPad, and drawing with those styluses is highly unsatisfactory. Once I get my hands on a Surface Pro and get acquainted with Photoshop, I will join the Magic Box 🙂
Looking forward to the part 2 of this interview. Cheers!
Thanks, Sindy! Great stuff… It would be *GREAT* to have you join us in The Magic Box!!!
I’ve never heard that quote– but man is it ever true! I can get pretty depressed/ cranky when I haven’t made anything in a while;) I’m much happier when I’m consistently working.
Congrats on the job! Enjoying what you do is a huge victory! It’s funny, I know lots of really talented creative folks who ended up in science/ labs. Seems like a great fit for that kind of mind:)
Oh man, getting set up with photoshop will change your life! I’d love to see some work based on what you’re seeing through the microscope. Will keep an eye out for you in Magic Box:D
Heck wish I had all these podcasts and people to talk to and etc when I was in art school also in fine arts.
Haha! ME TOO! That was actually one of the first feelings that inspired The ArtCast back in 2007. …to make the show I wish had existed when I was in art school.
…although I wasn’t in fine arts, I definitely felt directionless *most* of the time.
Yeah, Chris has created something special here for sure! It’s so great to be able to share experiences with other like minded folks!
This was really great and I can’t wait to hear the rest.
Maybe it’s the other way around with misfits. Fitting in just isn’t creative.
Being creative is what usually doesn’t fit in easily with others.
Questioning things, looking outside of boxes, thinking for yourself…
solving problems with your own answers…
instead of just fitting yourself into the box of the easily acceptable fashions that a majority of people will follow so that they don’t have to do the creative work for themselves.
Fitting in isn’t that hard – just do what everyone else wants you to do. They’ll explain everything for you.
Being creative is just so much more fun. Fitting in just isn’t creative.
Wow, Shawn. I feel like that’s a blog post right there… Let me know if you develop this idea further. Really really great…
Thanks Chris. Getting older helps you to see this if you can protect your creativity and identity through to your adulthood (I’m guessing I’m your age and still really trying to make it.)
Your a very inspiring guy and I can’t thank you enough for the podcast. Also, thank you for your support in the Magic Box. I really appreciate the help you gave there.
I’m with Chris, I’d read that! 😉
So glad you enjoyed the episode!
That was fun!
Reminded me when i was younger and spent my days (mostly nights) sketching for hours and doing these mini projects, doing research on how to do things, i was lucky my dad actually made a living from comics back then, so he always encouraged me (and keeps on doing it) to practice and mentoring me all the time. Me too spent plenty of time at my bedroom reading or drawing, not very social then at school, i guess being a misfit is a common thing among artists, its just the way each one of us see the world, and that unique sight we all have is what somehow make us “creative”.
I remember when i was about to go to college my goal was to study art, and i remember having this talk with my parents, they recommended applying for graphic design instead, which i don’t regret, but the argument was that if i studied art i wouldn’t be able to make a living out of it (in theory), and graphic design offered a wider range of possible jobs to apply and it had its artistic side too, after all i could do art practices as hobby (they said), which i partly did and always tried to solve design problems through my artistic side which was really cool but left always a tiny empty space unfilled.
Right now I do work as a graphic designer at an agency and my artistic skills are always encouraged by everyone, but some times i feel like my artistic side is not fully developed as it should be, it has been difficult to try to catch up because of my full time job activities are not as artistic as i would like and my daily activities takes most of my time, at the end of the day i have very little time to practice but try to get the most of it. Working hard i might be able to jump to the art industry which is my actual goal.
I enjoy these interviews a lot, they are encouraging enough to keep on fighting for that dream!
Thanks for the great time!
Thank you, Reuben! It’ll be really interesting to see how your Dad’s influence, your graphic design education and current work experience combine to shape your artistic path. Please keep me posted..
Hey Reuben! I actually had about 5 minutes where I thought the same thing– I took exactly one course before I realized that I was AWFUL at it! Haha, we were cutting these black squares and trying to conceptualize feelings, and my squares… everyone else’s were these perfect clean specimens. I’m in the corner pulling glue out of my hair;)
I wish I knew more about that world all the time though! Not sure if you’re aware, but there is a job, “graphic artist” that is a mix between the two! We had a great graphic artist on Boxtrolls– his name is Josh Holtsclaw and he did all the labels for the boxtrolls, and signage in the town. You can read more about his role here on his excellent blog:
http://www.bigfriendco.com/?p=814
His other work is incredible as well! Maybe there’s some inspiration to be had there:)
Either way, I’m betting that path will inform your personal work in cool ways. It can be hard to find the time, especially when you are feeling unsure– but if you get the ball rolling you could end up somewhere really cool and unexpected!
Best of luck!
Hi Chris,
I’ve been thinking a lot lately about how being an outcast/misfit contributes to one’s creativity/individuality. It’s another one of those introspective balancing acts that seem so integral for artists, and it was cool to hear how her path unfolded. This thought of separation-balance always reminds me of a conversation my friend and I had about singlehood, and how that loneliness used to drive him quite a bit in his art. In the end, it seems that the struggle of feeling like an outsider, whether or not we’re conscious of it at the time, is something that does really keep us going creatively; sort of like a rebellion against being a rebel. It’s *always* nice to know we’re not alone in the grand scheme.
Gotta say Jenn was probably one of the funniest people you’ve had on the podcast. Looking forward to the second part! 😀
Great points, Tong! You’re such a thinker. We need to get you on the show soon.
And yes, Jenn is hilarious. Part 2 isn’t as funny but it’s amazing. We talk about struggle and then go behind the scenes at Laika.
AAAH! I can’t wait for you all to hear it!
Aww thanks Tong! Glad you enjoyed it!!!
I like your observations about being an outcast. I think when we’re in pain we’re really close to our emotions, with less filter. That kind of honesty is captivating and relatable. I know a lot of artists who feel like they’re better at there jobs when they’re miserable… but I think there has to be a way to find that in happiness as well. Sometimes it seems like contentment is so much harder to communicate.
Definitely nice to have confirmation of shared experience! It’s kind of amazing to find so many people who been through similar things:)
Thanks for sharing your thoughts!! <3<3
I really relate to the discussion about “is it accredited.” That’s all I hear when I tell my parents I’m doing learning something. It just drives me crazy too, considering how much that doesn’t matter at all. Thanks for the reassurance Chris and Jenn!
Yes, Ben! Portfolio is eeeeevreeeeeythiiiiing….
Oh man for sure! Actually– Chris nails it in the comments below. Check out his response to Teju Abiola!
Hi Chris & Jenn.
Great interview, always nice to hear how peoples experiences coming up. I can relate to having bad primary school art classes. For me, they were so bad, that just the idea of being an ‘artist’ left a bad taste in my mouth. In high school I went from being a programer making my own games, to realizing the art was the most enjoyable part. From there I got really into videography & vfx and made several videos. On a whim I made a 2d animated video book report on ‘Lord of the Flies’ in MS-Paint my JR year of high school. At that point I realized animation was AMAZING, and wanted to learn whatever it took to go intro the field, which enviably pointed me to learning art fundamentals & going to art school (SJSU). Now I’m a BG designer at DisneyTV, but looking back its funny to see how bad educational experiences can really do a number on your psychology. At the same time, all those personal growth struggles determine how you turn out, and to this day I still approach problem solving in a very technical way.
Pat – you are so awesome. Side note – we’ve been planning the TV BG’s episode. Lora will be reaching out sometime in the Spring to set that up. Can’t wait!!!
Awesome can’t wait! thanks
Looking forward to that one. Pat, I can see what Chris means. Keep up the great work.
I’ll be on the lookout for that episode myself! Sounds like a great one!
Pat– it’s really fantastic how you followed these threads of interest and found your way back though! It seems like you have SO much curiosity and enthusiasm! I admire you for just diving into things and trying them out.
Oh art school… I went through a fine arts program that… taught through exploration let’s call it. There was an intro class that taught very basic theories and then the drawing and painting series began with: okay let’s do it. Sure in painting we did do a big mixing chart and some students got tips along the way but it was very much just go for it and figure out how.
I wanted to be taught! Plus I was one of the students that rarely got comments. Maybe I seemed too competent? But I really could’ve used the help! And when I’d ask a thoughtful question I’d get an odd answer. But when my classmates asked some existential non-question, they’d get a full discussion… So I definitely had to find those few professors that could help me and just run with that!
Getting a BA taught me that I’d rather not be a fine artist and should have gone with a targeted illustration or sequential arts program. We talked a lot about how there shouldn’t be a distinction between fine art and illustration because they’re both art… all the while proving how big the divide really is!
I’m just glad that resources like ArtCast, OA, Art Camp etc. exist now!
Thanks for the encouragement, Abrian! Yes. It’s exactly this consistent, suspicious LACK of teaching in many art schools that has helped to shape the methods and values here at OA.
We want everything we do to actually matter in the lives of our students and subscribers. What is the point of creating a school if everyone is going it alone…?
So with you. Thanks the dear fluffy overlords that the internet came along, and people like Chris have used them to create these safe places. It makes such a difference!
I was totally a misfit growing up. My mom was worried about me because I would run around in circles making sound effects … imagining the cartoon series I had developing in my brain. I would also make the neighborhood kids put on plays, for which I would design posters, costumes, staging, etc.
I was pretty heavy on the theater side of things (although I always drew) until I decided to create an animation oriented degree (Art+English+Video+Theater) in college. I really related to Jenn’s stories of discouraged over-acheivement. I had good and bad experiences in that realm.
Loved this episode. It was delightful! I wish I had the chance to chat with Jenn and CTNX!
Scott you have to share these poster designs if you ever find them!
Haha, they are pretty raw. I wish I knew where to find them.
Scott, thats so cool you customized your own schedule. When I was in college the animation program was so rigorous we just didn’t have time even to complete our required coursework. I noticed toward the end we had good technical skills, but nothing interesting to say & I started trying to rediscover what I was interested in besides drawing….. think about sharing your posters & I’ll think about posting my high school stop motion & MS-paint movies. haha
Yeah, Pat! The Integrated Studies option is one of the best things about Weber State University. The main benefit is that I learned to innovate and I do have “something interesting to say.” I’ve had to self-teach my self with the animation side of things but Animation Mentor and professional experience has helped me in that regard!
I’d love to see your high school movies. I don’t know if I’d be able to find my posters but I do have some books I created when I was young. Maybe I’ll share those. 🙂
Haha Scott you sound like you were an AMAZING little kid. Bet we would’ve been friends.
Wish we had talked at CTNX too– we’ll have to make sure for the next time!!!
I think all artists are misfits in there own way. I believe that because of this we are able to express ourselves easier than others that are less creative. In younger years, I felt more like a misfit. But in art school and in adulthood I think that is when I discovered most of my artist friends had similar experiences. So I say embrace your inner misfit, it makes you who you are I really enjoyed listening to Jenn’s interview, I am looking forward to part 2. Also thank you for doing these ArtCasts. I really enjoy listening to them and wish they had been around back when I was in art school.
Thanks, Mark. I agree. And yes, when I started podcasting back in 2008, I set out to create the resource I wish I’d had when I was in art school.
Thanks Mark! Really glad you liked the episode:) It’s awesome that you found a great community. Sounds like it’s really helped you!
Great interview Chris and Jenn, very entertaining and informative.
I think embracing the misfit in all of us can only help creativity. Sometimes it might take awhile to realize it but everyone is a misfit in some way, those that reject it only become mundane and mindlessly follow the ‘herd’.
Way back when, in art class in grade school, I was the one that always had a different perspective. I remember doing a thanksgiving themed drawing where the turkey had the old musket and was chasing the Pilgrims and Indians. The teacher just didn’t get it for some reason.
Being retired Air Force, living in the PNW, I have the utmost respect for all military families as they tend to be forgotten, yet they themselves are the actual backbone of the military members. Being in a military family is being a misfit as that is not the ‘norm’ for most people, yet they tend to be the most ‘normal’ people I’ve known. Perhaps that’s is just my ‘misfit’ norm being different then everyone else s norm.
As I said great interview and looking forward to the mentor group auditions and starting my draft letter now.
RC
I feel like you have a great animated short in that turkey idea, Rich!
haha, yeah there certainly is an instant camaraderie with other folks who share that military life experience. I lived on a base for a while there in South Dakota as a kid. I remember it fondly:D
Wow I love hearing friends chat art, great artcast as always!
Man I hear so many different art school stories. I personally tried for 2 years and had to quit (for many reasons) and changed over to graphic design. Now years later in the design industry I am finding my love for art again, and of course thanks to the Oatley Academy, guidance and mentorship along the way has made a huge difference to my growth and passion for art! Do I wish I had known about online art schools or even art for animation back when I was studying at university, No. I probably would not of traveled the world and met Jenn & Chris at CTN back in 2011!
Can not wait to hear part 2!
An Oatley Academy without Tegan Clancy is no Oatley Academy at all…
The above is a certified true fact** 😉
Another favorite ArtCast! I’m very excited for Jenn’s mentorship to open. I’ll be waiting for the email.
I had to jump in and comment on the whole misfit thing. Something strange happened when I started sixth grade. All of the sudden, all of my peers wanted to be “adults,” and everything we’d enjoyed playing/watching/reading just a year before was considered “childish” and “uncool.” But I wasn’t ready to be all grown up yet. I became a twelve-year-old outcast because I still wanted to play pretend and live in my own world. So, I found a socially acceptable way of doing that: I drew.
Thank you for my daily dose of inspiration. I’m looking forward to Part 2 with Jenn.
Yeah, I had many similar experiences with the cool/ uncool dichotomy.
I played with GI Joe and He-Man and TMNT well into middle school. I would often play with my brother and best friend in the front yard of my house and I remember my peers remarking on how they thought it was weird.
I think they were even more incredulous that I was so public about it. Hahaha…. But being a total nerd already, I didn’t have much to lose. So I held onto happiness wherever I could find it.
You’re awesome– and I know just what you mean. What’s the rush to grow up! the more “childlike” things are some of the best in life!
Wow, you guys don’t know how timely this podcast is for me—I’m a freshman art major at UCLA right now, and since most of the art here is super conceptual and not really strong on fundamentals it’s pretty difficult to balance my personal practice with my assignments. In fact I’ve been listening to this podcast while doing my hw for an interpretive painting of a rotten pomegranate! Anyway though I totally understand Jen’s dilemma, with maybe even more of a strange twist. In high school I got a pretty solid art fundamental education, but it was super rigid and so focused on technical aspects to the detriment of concept—Every year when our school went to portfolio day the art school reps always knew our students from our identical portfolios of beautifully rendered chairs, tables, and fruit. I learned as much as I could technically, but always tried to do my own as well. I chafed a lot with my teacher in the last year over the content of my AP portfolio, which she considered too “illustrative” and “narrative” (despite the fact that I WANTED to pursue illustration/animation.) it got so bad I sort of skipped class a lot to work on my pieces in the library. I ended up listening to a LOT of Artcasts during that time, and they really encouraged me to continue what I loved doing!
I decided to go to UCLA because art school was way too expensive and also because I didn’t want to limit myself to learning just about art and hanging out only with artists. After years of strict fundamentalist art training, even after my rebellion, was completely stumped for my first college art class!, It was almost completely conceptual, and so foreign to me that I remember crying over Skype to my family and wondering what on earth I was supposed to do.
Now though while I’ve enjoyed myself so far it’s really clear that the Fine Art dept.’s direction is completely different than my personal goals, and it’s pretty difficult to follow those goals at the same time while being in such a program…I thought Jenn’s solution of finding other professors in the fashion department was super interesting. I’ve been thinking of doing something similar myself, to try to maybe take classes from the film/video/performance department to get more experience, but I’m not quite sure how to go about it.
I also am definitely planning on joining the magic box/oatley academy classes once I get my new tablet! They seem really informative and while I’ve sort of been hesitant before I think i definitely want to take online classes if my school ones won’t suffice. Just need to find how to fit it into my schedule, haha!
Until now though my new dilemma is whether I should stay in the art department or maybe transfer to something more beneficial, since while I (and my parents) definitely want me to get a degree, the question is whether I might as well get a non-art degree since I can always do the art/take other classes without paying ridiculous amounts of money for an art degree…lots of questions to consider!
Haha this got really long but just want to say that this artcast is ridiculously timely and is super encouraging to me! Can’t wait for part two, hope you all have a wonderful day/night/whatever time it is in your zone.
Taylor, I find your comment moving on several levels. For one, I just had this instinct to give you a huge hug when you were talking about crying on Skype! Ugh!
And obviously, the thought that the podcast has helped you through tough times is incredibly encouraging.
It would be great to have you join OA in the future. Yes, definitely make sure it’s the right time or you won’t really get to enjoy it…
In terms of degrees/ doing what your parents want you to do, all I can say is that life is unsettlingly short. …too short to live by someone else’s decisions. The decision you reach about your education (and the resulting expense/ debt) should be the best, smartest, wisest, most responsible decision for *your* life with special consideration for how it will affect you (negatively or positively) in the future.
This is *your* life and *your* career and *your* future. You are the one who will have to navigate the effects of decisions made in the present.
…so draw wisdom from everywhere you can find it and make the best decision you can for your own life.
Thanks again for the encouraging words. Stay strong.
Hey Taylor:)
Chris really nailed it in his response, and I totally agree– that skype call sounded heart breaking! I’ve had a few of those myself, you WILL get through it.
I don’t know if you have already done this– but I think it would be well worth your time to go see a career advisor at your school. they may have another name, but just chat with someone about your goals, and what your experiencing. They may have some suggestions for moving forward that you hadn’t considered!
Just make sure you talk with someone open minded, if they give you a boxed answer seek out someone else;) Not everyone is great about making adjustments with the individual in mind!
Best of luck! Thanks for sharing your story!
This was such a great interview and I related so much to it. I had a very similar experience in art school, where it wasn’t what we were making but what we were saying by making it. I even had teachers who, when I told of my aspirations of working in film production, rolled their eyes and called it “not really art.”
I was fortunate that the Life Drawing instructor was excellent and was very encouraging. We also had some excellent Art History instructors. I remember arriving a little early for the class and the teacher was waiting outside because there was another class in session. We were discussing some Georgia O’Keefe (who I was doing research on for my term paper) when she asked me what I was hoping to do with my art. I expressed a desire to work in production or maybe comics but noted that I guess it wasn’t really art. She gave me a very serious look and told me that it was absolutely art and film, animation and comics deserved just as much attention as anything else being produced at that time. Somehow, coming from an Art History instructor, that had a lot more meaning.
As far as the misfit thing goes, I think it isn’t so much that misfits are more creative but creative people tend to be misfits. I know I was often seen as weird in school because I had an absurdist sense of humor and would rather sit and draw in the corner than interact. I had the occasional person come over and talk to me like I was someone who needed their help to fit in. But I also left high school with a really close knit group of friends who are all differently creative.
Wow, Roger. Chills. Amazing. Who is this Art History instructor and will she be my BFF?
I’m with Chris– let’s get this lady a fruit basket and a years supply of turtle wax! She’s amazing!
Great interview! I am really enjoying it/can’t wait for the rest. The talk about how fine art plays such a huge role in causing people to veer away from their true love- creating art. The same happened to me. I am only now seeing so clearly how all the art that inspired me growing up was paired with storytelling, but that when I got to college, full of hope for the future… armed only with my own self taught drawing skills (no art classes in backwoods Louisiana), then I found myself waiting and having cold water thrown all over the art I loved. There were only two fields of art in the world according to them… Graphic Design and Fine Art. I majored in GD since I was told to, while getting as much basic design, drawing and painting instruction as I could. (Still it was basically in the ‘you’re on you’re own’ style mentioned often above) After college I found myself in a field I didn’t love and eventually I just got completely disillusioned. Now I am trying to do something more and I still can’t get those voices out of my head that say ‘It can’t be done’. It’s only podcasts like these that remind me that real people are really out there doing the things I love. And I’m not going to sit around here NOT doing them just because I have more obstacles to climb.
One of the things I want to do though, is to start creating more awareness in our area for young artists that there are other options. That comics aren’t beyond our reach, that illustration is an actual career, and that most people who ‘advise’ you about careers in art (if they don’t have one themselves) will be full of misinformation. Thanks again, as usual, you rock Chris.
This message you have to share, Misty, is important and urgent. Please keep me posted as you figure out how and where to communicate it.
Thanks for the encouragement. It is apparent that YOU rock as well.
Have you heard of Turkey Creek, Louisiana? I lived there for a good clip when I was young!
I totally understand your pain– but there will be a thousand people who want to tell you what “can’t be done”. What they usually mean is that THEY weren’t able to do it;) Wouldn’t you rather fail at what you really want before you resign yourself to unhappiness? Just my opinion– but I’d rather fall face first in the mud and know for sure than wonder what if.
That is such an amazing goal. You could really change lives if you figure out a good way to do that. If you came up with a solid proposal maybe you could even get a grant to travel and work with schools. It’s something that would have meant the world to me when I was a kid for sure. Best of luck, and please keep us updated!
Jenn, I live in West Monroe, LA but I am originally from Dodson, LA (the big ol’ town with a school and a stoplight) ha… I was probably about an hour or two north of you. I used to spend summers with my cousin in Anacoco, that was a bit more near Turkey Creek probably. Just another spot in the middle of the woods. It is exciting to hear about your life and work. Thanks for your input!
Great interview! Jenn is such a funny and nice person, it was great hearing her insights. 🙂
Like others mentioned, I think being creative might make you a misfit, but being a misfit doesn’t mean you’re creative. That said, nothing wrong with being a misfit, so long as you don’t let that wholly define who you are. That is, one shouldn’t be wrapped up in being contrary and close themselves off to what’s popular just to maintain some sort of misfit identity. I’ve known artists who turn their nose up to anything considered mainstream or popular and it seems very silly to me.
Exactly.
The desire to create a connection with her/his audience, and create connections between the members of his/her audience, is the visual storyteller’s generosity.
It’s a beautiful aspiration. Not one to be scoffed at.
I love both of these sentiments. You guys are great<3<3
Such an enjoyable and encouraging interview!! Thank you Chris and thank you Jenn for sharing your experiences! It is wonderful to hear others’ stories since they always show the infinite variations of lives and perspectives. I can never re-realize that too many times.
I also loved the line “I’ll go to school for art…but I don’t know what that means!” It seemed so wonderfully honest to me.
I was definitely, and still am, a misfit: I thrive on that magical combo of drawing and reading!!! Misfit is a tricky term because what I think it can really mean is every individual’s uniqueness and honest perspective. There seems to be an infinite spectrum of degrees to which people adapt themselves to be able to converse and connect with others. So I believe creativity and artwork are one method to embrace one’s misfit-ness and difference in all their glory. Not quite sure if that makes sense, but I do find it so interesting. The conversations in this interview, as well as the all above comments, really made me realize that that’s one of the reasons art is so wonderful: it allows you to be 100% your true self, while realizing that there are an infinite of other 100% true selves.
I appreciated the emphasis throughout that the term artist is broad and that art is everywhere. This is especially encouraging since a recent internship experience, while interesting, kinda made me question what I really want to invest myself in.
Finally, I loved that exchange about us all feeling a little like Hermione Granger. I have been a huge admirer of LAIKA’s productions for a long time now and am so excited to hear part 2 of this interview! Thank you so very much Jenn and Chris!!!!
Amazing Phoebe!
“One of the reasons art is so wonderful: It allows you to be 100% your true self, while realizing that there are an infinite [number] of other 100% true selves.”
Amazing amazing amazing.
LOVE your thoughts on being a misfit. That’s the best thing about humanity– we can all be so different, and still share these core emotional experiences that connect us! It’s beautiful:)
Oh wow, this has seriously been THE podcast I have been waiting for!!! Finally hearing about someone who also struggled to learn illustration and fundamental painting and drawing while being surrounded by people doing contemporary conceptual artworks. In my final year I was surrounded by fellow students who had glass bottles they were smashing against the wall or a bed with a large twisted twig hanging over it. I also had no idea what I was getting into when I signed up for my art degree and have come to learn what I do and do not like and want for my art career by going through the painful process of first making wrong and uninformed choices.
So glad the show resonated with you, Cassandra. (I think I saw that bed/ twisted twig idea in an Anthropologie store… I wonder which came first…)
If we can spare others the pain of the process of making uninformed choices by sharing our own experiences, then we’ve done a good thing.
Hahaha, oh man just you describing it… I’m having flashbacks;)
Really glad that you enjoyed the episode!
That was the best thing I could have listened to right before work. It put me in such good spirits I danced around all night. Yes, my coworkers thought I was on something. They just don’t understand.
Anyways, I do feel like being a misfit helps in being creative(and long, boring nights at work). Misfits tend to think differently about anything and everything. But, like a lot of people, I’ve had to control the inner misfit through school and especially through college. I went to the University of Florida where all the art kids were fine artists. That’s what the school was about. I found myself falling into that category but every time I fell in a foot would stick out or an arm would stick out. I would create something “fine arty” but it was always different from everybody else’s (super similar to Jenn’s experience). Well, finally my head stuck out and I saw why I originally got into art in the first place: storytelling, fun, adventures, and emotion. So I left the school to find other misfits like myself! I think I found them in the Oatley Academy. 😀
Anyways, great podcast as always! I can’t wait until the next episode. Jenn is so delightful!
Haha! YESSS!!!
OA is like the land of misfit toys. We have insane amounts of goofy fun together. …and manage to provide a very effective art education in the process (If I do say so myself).
I know it’s the greatest thing that has ever happened to me and I’m so glad you are a part of what we are trying to accomplish here, Chance.
Thanks for sharing.
Hahaha, that was a fantastic description of what that’s like. I just kept seeing Whack-A-Mole in my mind;)
OA is a legitimate haven for our kind. I feel lucky to have found Chris and the school, and to get to work with such incredible positive, passionate students!
Thanks so much– I hope you like the next one just as much! 😀
YEAH! Here’s to being a misfit! Sometimes it feels hard to tell though whether it’s one’s creative part that informs the misfit part or if it’s the other way around so to speak. Probably a little bit of both. Anyway, really interesting episode and a fascinating life-story. Looking forward to part 2 ^^
Yes. Good point, Olof. Thanks so much for sharing. And yeah, part 2 is awesome.
Cheers to that Olof!
Ok so I have a question. How do you make the transition from a realistic approach to art to a more stylized approach. What should I study? I have great foundation skills and can render till Im blue in the face but I find it much more challenging to get an illustrated or stylized look. Advice?
Hey, Beck! Yes. If realism is about detail and complexity, then style is about simplification. That’s really the question you need to ask yourself – what are you choosing to simplify and in what way will you achieve that?
You can get an infinite number of style ideas from those working in whichever realm of commercial art in which you want to work.
We have a great interview with Justin Rodrigues coming up that explores this idea in-depth. One valuable thing is to trace the work of others and continuously ask “WHY?” Why did the artist make each individual design choice.
Chris crushed that question, just wanted to add one thing:
It can be fun to start testing the waters by limiting yourself. Maybe you make a whole painting with only flat colors and shapes. If you use photoshop, maybe you do it with the polygonal lasso tool to even further keep you from being able to overdescribe. If you work traditionally, maybe you limit the number of brush strokes you’re allowed to use…
However you choose to approach that– just know that you are going to find it uncomfortable, and you will most likely be judging it negatively throughout. Try to remember that it’s just for fun, and you’ll find more value if you can stay the course. Best of luck Beck!
Ah I love hearing art school stories! So much fun, and so many people seeing what they can get away with under the umbrella of “art”.
I would definitely identify as a misfit, even going back to high school. I had the same experience that Jenn did in high school where being an artist meant fine artist painting, and I had NO idea of the hundreds of other applications I could dive into. I knew I was a misfit, and I kinda wore it as a badge. I want(ed) to be original and odd! Though a lot of the time I felt pretty isolated. If I had the support back then that I do now (largely through OA) it would’ve saved me a lot of pain and inner turmoil. Yeah, being a misfit helped shape my art and what I created, but it came with it’s own challenges.
Thanks for sharing thus far Chris and Jenn! Looking forward to part 2!
Caleb, it’s amazing to have you at OA. (I was just telling my Painting Drama 2 students last Saturday about something I learned from you…)
When I wasn’t in denial about my weirdness, I also wore it as a badge of honor – but more in an “f-u” kind of way… I had issues. (Had…? Have…? Haha…)
I think high school is sort of panful and cringey for everyone, though it sounds like you could have used some more support! I’m so glad that that struggle didn’t break you, and that you’ve found OA– that group surprises me daily with how collaborative and uplifting they are!
What a hilarious and awesome interview! I really want Jenn to write her autobiography, or better yet, do some kind of comic or cartoon about her crazy childhood.
The stories about art school and all the B.S. that goes on there really hit home with me. I remember going for my degree in graphic design, and being in a drawing class that was a mix of fine art and commercial art students. The instructor was very much one of those avant-garde, “If you can justify it, it’s art” types…the fine art majors thought he was a genius, while us commercial art types thought he was an idiot, and I was frustrated by the lack of fundamentals or any kind of useful direction. It really put me off the whole idea of “fine art”, and it took a long time (and a lucky encounter with some indy comix artists) for me to regain my love of drawing. It kind of blows my mind hearing that so many other people had similar bad experiences in art school…”broken system” is putting it mildly.
Thanks as always for an inspiring and entertaining show!
J. Kevin, you are awesome. Awesome awesome awesome.
A “broken system” is, indeed a very mild way of describing the problem.
Something that I didn’t think to bring up in the show is that many of these problems result from a combination of three factors – 1.) A “money-first” value set. 2.) Decades of no accountability for the leadership and 3.) An egregious lack of empathy in leadership, resulting in a detrimental disconnect between student and reality.
Thanks J. Kevin! Maybe one day I’ll do some drawings;)
I hate that there is a contingent of people in the school systems that try to control what ‘art’ is/ can be. It really has driven away so many would be artists and created a strange wall around art, as if it’s only for a certain kind of person.
That is just… a hug bummer. Another understatement I know;) But I do think it’s turning. People sharing experiences like this– I have to think it really helps. That it’s opening up the possibilities for all of us. I hope so anyway:) thanks for adding your experience to the conversation!
Slowly reading my way through the comments, whew!
I feel like all artists/creatives I know were misfits of sorts! I was homeschooled until college; my art classes consisted of my mom giving me books like “Drawing On the Right Side of the Brain”, human anatomy coloring books (which I never colored because I didn’t want to mess up the pretty drawings), having me watch PBS programs on classical artists, and mostly just leaving me to myself and the shenanigans of my own mind. Sometimes I still feel like I learned more back then by the forces of my own curiosity than I do now.
For college, I contemplated Art Academy and some other schools for a split second, but felt so lost on what kind of art I wanted to focus on, I decided to go to a local university. It’s mainly known for its sciences (forestry, marine biology, etc), but it had a wonderful general arts program and I found a few teachers who worked with me to delve into my more illustrative side, especially when there were no illustration/character design courses. I have no regrets for college; it was affordable, not only taught me foundations of art and structure, but also taught me that finding allies in teachers and other students sometimes teaches more than the classes themselves.
Great interview! I’ve loved following Jenn’s work throughout the past couple of years and can’t wait for part 2!
(P.S. It’s nice for once to hear someone had crazier “pets” in the backyard than I did growing up with twenty Angora rabbits and five ducks with a medium-to-small suburban backyard 🙂 ).
Oops! Just changed my Twitter, so the link in the above post won’t work. Finally have all my social media names the same!
http://www.twitter.com/BethanyWellsArt
Fantastic insights, Bethany. Love it.
Bethany– I think you chose really wisely. I completely agree– often it’s who you’re working with and what their motivations are that really determines what you’ll get out of it. You can find great people all sorts of places without breaking the bank. Enthusiasm makes all the difference!
haha, that sounds adorable! Little bunny faces pretty much kill me. It’s the twitching I think… <3<3<3
Hi Chris and Jenn,
this interview was very interesting and I cannot get the part with the frying pan and the alligator out of my head. I just had it in front of my eyes as if it was an animated scene, and couldn’t stop laughing.
This interview gave me some hopes that being complete misfit might be the best thing ever. When I was young, there was always something I questioned or tried to figure out if it could be done differently. Anything you could imagine. I always wondered how the world functions, how far it goes, and what else could be out there. I would (and still do) always remember my dreams I had at night, and eventually it got somewhere, where I was able to just enter lucid dreams. I was a curious kid, and no one shared the same interests I had. I always was, and still might be, a misfit. Whereever people went they would look at my back, as I was going somewhere else, following a path no one could follow me on.
Whatever I created in my own worldbuilding (per example dragons) I would try to reinvent through some unique stories. And I am now, after many, many years, at a point where I have the right idea about design, and storytelling, that I am able to experiment with all this via illustration.
Being a misfit means, in my opinion, that one has the potential to change the world. After all these years though, I didn’t really make much positive experiences with kids at my age or people in general, I had started to lose my hope, and witness the world running in circles. I have wondered if I could ever change anything. Due to the interview, I think I already did: I exactly know that situation when parents or teachers would ruin kid’s dreams. However, luckily, my parents are very supportive. I wouldn’t be here without them.
And in my life I have seen more than a few young people that have told me: “I would love to be as good as you, but I have no talent.” My answer, which is all the truth I would tell them, was: “At your age, I wasn’t nearly as good as you. Imagine what you can do when you reach my current age, just go forward and try.”
Eventually I have managed to change the world by encouraging some young people to keep being persistent.
The artschool I have visited, the only one I was able to visit, had it’s focus on design, and less illustration. Due to this school though I have found what I wanted to do: Illustration. But the designers and design-students would tell me that it had no future or purpose. And while they would click on filters in Photoshop, or try to put randomized graphics together, or would leave the class to eat for lunch, I was always sitting there drawing, with pencils. I wouldn’t do anything else, and at the end was amongst a few with the best marks in the final exam. Although it meant nothing when it comes to finding jobs, and competition is super strong, I am sure being a misfit is my strength.
So I always tell the younger ones to stay persistent, and always see that they are far more skilled in their age than I was in theirs. My biggest leap towards work that actually looked like “something” I came up with about 25 (I am now 29) years.
I hope I didn’t ramble too much now, but that’s also a part of mine. Many, many thoughts in my head. 😉 Can’t express them all, but I would like to, haha.
It makes me absolutely crazy when artists default to didacticism.
It’s dishonest, destructive and pervasive.
It’s a betrayal of the artist’s very nature.
We are supposed to be communicators, connectors and the purveyors of nuance, empathy and honesty, are we not?
Yes, we are, indeed.
I always asked myself back in artschool: Isn’t art in any sort or form meant to try something new or to take risks? Of course it doesn’t mean that everything has to be completely different all the time, however, trying to go a new way or to do something unusual, will eventually result in discovering something great or unexpected; that wouldn’t be discovered if one stays within the default path.
I hope it makes sense…
What makes me crazy the most is the fact that artschools and many art teachers seem not to encourage the young ones to follow their dreams, to stay persistent, to have the courage to try something new, whatever it might be.
They rather seem to force the students into an one and only way of doing per example illustration.
I had one teacher at school who’d per example start to rant if one would use smudge-techniques with the pencil, he called it cheating…
Hi Chris,
Love the interview! Does a misfit help? I went to the American Academy of Art, right across from the Art Institute of Chicago. I, like you, have always been a misfit, but wasn’t very comfortable with it. I don’t really know an artist who isn’t one. I think it’s part and parcel for being an artist. I don’t dress funky, don’t have tattoos, had an ear pierced, but it’s closed up now. But how you look isn’t what being a misfit is. It’s about what interests you and how that is outside of what interests most people. How you find enjoyment in things that many don’t, and see things in a different way than others. And the further I go on this artistic journey, the more comfortable with being a misfit I am. Keep up the great work!
Beautiful, Mark.
Hi Chris and Jen,
I totally could relate to what was being said during this interview!
I was a very odd child–animals were my friends. I was frequently found running around the yard meowing, whinnying, or (more hilariously) barking which caused my mother to rush out of the house thinking I was being attacked by some savage dog.
Other times I was on my hands and knees, which was me “studying” my subject matter, but I didn’t realize at the time–it was just fun.
I got a lot of weird looks from school kids when I eventually went to school. 0.o
As for the discussions about art school; I really appreciate this talk.
I had interviewed at an art school and been encouraged to apply, but the parents didn’t feel it was quite in the pay rate for school. At the time I remember being upset (but I’m glad they didn’t send me there. I would have lost my passion for art.)
As time went on, I realized art school wasn’t necessarily any better than say learning online or self-teaching. What’s valuable is my effort, the learned discipline to keep drawing, and to power through the crappy drawings to eventually get better and create a portfolio that establishes me someplace where my oddities are fully accepted or even encouraged (if not merely understood).
Do either of you, Chris or Jen, remember going through a period where your creativity disappeared suddenly and you became “normal” and had to find your creativity again–that inner child—your imagination?
Thanks,
CraftyC
Hey there, CraftyCat. Art (and storytelling) has always been my lifeline.
I have experienced dry spells but dry spells are one of the primary reasons why fundamentals and studies are so important.
I’m fortunate that I always just assumed that being an artist isn’t a choice. It’s just who I am.
I’m currently going through the whole ‘parents want you to go to college’ thing. I’m a high school senior and have applied and been accepted to some art schools. I’ve told them that no one will care about the degree I get, but rather the skills I’ve nurtured and relationships I build. They are okay with me going to college for Illustration, but won’t consider the amazing online alternatives. My state (NY), does not have good state commercial art programs, and all the ‘big’ art schools are in NYC (unfortunately, not a fan of the city). The plan now is to go to an out-of state-school with a strong program and the curriculum that will allow me to pursue visdev.
For the past two years, I’ve been super conscious of the fact that I’ll have to take out a large amount of debt to go there. The school doesn’t have the best track record when it comes to scholarships, and it would be extremely irresponsible for me to ask my parents to take out large loans for me when they have their own debt problems with which to deal. And I’m the third child out of four.
The funny thing is that I am the artist in the family and the one who stands to have the job with the lowest salary/prospects of ‘richness’ but will be paying exorbitant prices for my education that we all know I could—if I worked really hard—get for a much cheaper cost on the internet. My two older siblings are at state schools with great programs in biotechnology and accounting. Their entire tuition is going to be what my room and board will cost 🙁 NYC might be a great place for artists, but NYS does not support the arts as well as other states do.
I did actually apply to a state school (with a very new program that is not at all what I’m looking for) and got a full tuition scholarships. I have really good grades that I worked hard to get, but art schools don’t care about grades.
I do like the school I’m planning to which I’m planning on going, and I think the program is great, but I don’t think that it is 200K+ great. The ‘path of the artist’ is 100% worth it to me, but the price of art school is bogging me down. It’s ridiculous that they allow children (I’m not even 18 yet, I’ll be starting college at 17) to take out huge amounts of money most have never even seen in their lifetimes. I probably won’t even make the amount of money in my first year of employment that I’ll have to take out for one year of school.
I’d consider myself motivated, so I’d probably be fine doing online programs of which I could tailor to my needs. But my parents can’t understand that in the commercial art world, and strong portfolio is the equivalent to the bar exam for lawyers or a medical license for doctors. But unlike the latter two, no one who’s going to hire you is going to care how you got there. They only care that you have the skills they seek.
Sorry for the essay 🙂 I really appreciate what you do!
Don’t be sorry. It’s fantastic stuff, Teju.
ONE QUESTION: Are your parents are planning to pay for 100% of your $200,000.00+ in debt?
If not, then they are in no position to pressure into a situation where you will be financially debilitated for what could end up being the majority of your life.
If not, then they need to let you make these critical financial decisions which will affect your entire life.
Wow, Jenn’s Painting 1 experience reminded me a lot of my own Painting 1 experience. I too had gone into painting 1 thinking I would be learning how to, you know, paint. Not only was precious little taught about painting (and I had to sit seething through one critique were my classmate was getting a glowing review for painting an entire canvas black except for a rectangle which he had left blank – he had stolen my tube of black paint and used every bit of it to do so…that stuff ain’t cheap, man), but my end of the course critique was literally “I don’t think oil is your medium (…uh, first time using it?), have you ever tried gouache? (sorta, I mean, out of the tube watercolor made up all of my painting experience ever prior to this course?) Well, you should stick to that. Anyway, you’re an illustrator, not an artist. (actual words)” I try not to think about how much I paid for that.
Our society, at least when most of us were growing up, had a very one-size fits all method to raising children. That alone created many misfits, because I think saying that the size they came up with fit maybe 25% of kids is a generous measure. But I think the kids that are creative are the ones that recognized that what they were told was going to work for them wasn’t working and came up with something that did. I was definitely one of those kids, and to this day I have scars from my time of trying to fit in.
Really great points, Naomi.
Wow!! This was so awesome and this is only part 1 !!! I can’t wait to hear more from Jenn and Chris as well!! This has opened my eyes to those awesome high school years and just how much Impact they have on me today!! Thanks you guys!
Thanks, Reggie. You’re the best, buddy.
Absolutely wonderful Artcast, guys. The joy that exudes from the both of you is a potent and beautiful thing. If there is one thing that can inspire someone to create something, it is another person overflowing with joy of creation.
I really appreciate your honest embrace of your whole person, Jenn. It is somewhat rare, yet shouldn’t be. I resonated deeply with your effortless flow back and forth between the crazy and silly elements of life and your very obvious intellectual understanding of your craft, and the joy of a serious conversation about art, and, I suspect, life. We are all complex beings, and it isn’t a betrayal of either facet to express the other, rather, a complement. Sea salt on an artisan chocolate. It is entirely possible that that dude in your painting class picked you up off of the shelf, something quite sharp and multifaceted, and covered you in fluffy fur. 😉
I can only intellectually relate to the art school experience because of the successful intervention of those around me who denied it’s benefit, and by extension, my calling to be a storyteller. I was also homeschooled like a previous commenter, and the only art instruction I ever received was the alcoholic woman in the perpetual mumu that lived on the street behind us. Her understanding of artistic pedagogy was to pick an existing piece of art(never masterworks), and tell us to copy it in pastel. I have many examples in a box somewhere. In the midst of that, I had an elderly stranger tell me that art wasn’t a legitimate goal, and that I needed to be a preacher like my dad. I was raised in a very strict and conservative environment, so “Respect your elders” translated to “Elders are ALWAYS right”. This stripped the viability from the dream, and demoted it to mere hobby, a recreational pursuit. In the one moment that my heart started to rise out of that toxic miasma, I went to a high school event at Ringling School of Art and Design, which was located in my home town. My dad agreed to go with me. On our drive home, his conservative, fairly puritanical nature crushed my enthusiasm. He told me that I should not go to art school because as a young man it wasn’t right or wise to draw or paint the nude figure. He was unable to understand the beauty of the human form as having any validity as art or as a learning tool. To him, nudity and sexuality were synonymous. The ultimate result of this was I now have a degree in Interior Design(Which I love and in which I have a fair level of skill), and 60G of debt for which I have no desire to devote my life. I want to tell stories.
I too am waiting excitedly to apply for your mentorship, Jenn… I think it would be a blast with equal potential for intense growth and work, and for ridiculous tangents… 🙂
Now as for the misfits… I just might disagree! Here’s why. Discovery of ones self and our place in the world in which we live is a universal human experience. None of us go into life understanding this. Uncertainty and fear and confusion are constants. Therefore, EVERY ONE OF US IS A STORYTELLER. The only difference is the story that we tell. Misfits tell the story with perhaps a bit more honesty, but those who do seem to find places are telling a story, masking their own insecurity, AND THEY EXCEL AT IT. It seems to me that everyone has equal creative POTENTIAL, yet choose to express that in vastly different ways.
And with that, I’m signing off. Thanks again for a wonderful Artcast, and I cannot wait for part two. 🙂
I was always the kid on the outside. In fact, I was the class drawer as well until I hit Junior High. I’m guess it was the fact that I would make sound effects while drawing that probably made me out to be the weird kid.. Then when I hit Junior high and High School I got into the punk scene, which for people on the west coast its seems to be no big deal, but growing up on the east coast in PA i got a lot of slack for that. Thankfully I had supportive parents who didn’t care how I dressed or if I had a mohawk. I kind of came out of my shell by that point since I was no longer the singled out weird kid anymore – Kind of the group of round pegs looking at the square hole and thinking why would I want to go there, I guess.
Great interview!
I honestly am not sure if you need to be a misfit to be an artist. When I was a kid I was the opposite. I was more of part of the herd. I’m honestly not sure if there are any personality traits that is too common with artist. And I think that’s what makes art so diverse. Which is what makes it great!
THANK YOU for this great interview! Especially the bit about accredited schools. I’m trying to convince my parents that I want to study illustration abroad and I found a really good course that will provide me with lots of new experiences and opportunities. They are generally supportive of my art but this degree that I want is not accredited so they’re saying that I can’t waste money on a degree that will end up collecting dust because no place will accept it! They don’t understand that it’s the work that counts. And now instead of convincing them I’m actually trying to have The National Bureau for Academic Accreditation in my country to accredit the course!
So I’m glad you brought this up. Because this mentality is wrong in so many ways.
Looking forward for part 2 🙂
Jenn and Chris! Loved this interview so much! The alligator story, SO HILARIOUS!!
It was really interesting to hear Jenn’s experience about art school. I think my hubby really had a similar experience. I am trying to convince him to take some graphic design classes online. He got a lot of useless fine art stuff and he got a degree in graphic design. I even went to his performance art class final. It was HILARIOUS!! I know a lot of people like that kind of stuff, but it was really irrelevant to getting a degree in graphic design.
I on the other hand thought that I got a really good art education at the University. But at BYU, where I went, they had a really strong Illustration department at the time. So I felt like I got a good foundation. I wouldn’t trade my experience for anything. But unfortunately, the majority of stories I hear, are the opposite. And there is a whole new wonderful world of online art education now that wasn’t really available when I went to school. I love that I feel like I have the option now of continuing my education in a class with really good teachers that are actually working in the field.
I was also a misfit growing up. I was always kind of quiet and introverted growing up, but I did have a few friends that got me. I look back and think of how I am the same as I was growing up, but how I have changed and grown. Sometimes being alone and misunderstood led me to read, draw, and imagine things that I probably would have never done if I was a very social person in those days. I can still find time to tap into that when I go on long walks and still take the time to imagine and dream. I love that now as an adult, I have been able to find many of my best friends that are also creative people. It is so nice to have friends that understand and get it!
Hi Chris!
Sorry for the late comment and discussion everyone! I’ve been meaning to get involved and communicate for a while. But I aim to make more time for this, because this has been one of my favorite podcasts for a long time.
This interview with Jenn is absolutely refreshing! I commend her for her spirit and pursuing the kind of learning she wanted. When I first started at CSUF I had no idea what I wanted to do. And I often envied people who already knows their goals and made firm decisions. It goes to show that often a paid college program doesn’t always make the artist. Jenn’s love for illustration and passion is inspiring and encouraging. So I honestly feel like her time at Chicago only made her a stronger artist, because even though she considered herself the weirdo of the bunch, she stood out. I wish I was as persistent as her.
It wasn’t until the last year or two I finally made a decision of wanting to be in pre-production animation. But even then, I wasn’t sure what role in particular. I’d try my hand in storyboard, character design, and general vis dev work. I’d try all of them just in hopes that I’ll understand which kind of work I’m passionate for. So far I’m really enjoying storyboard, but I often find myself returning to doing a lot of narrative illustration pieces. I’m constantly feeling like I’m still searching what I’m good at. I just knew I wanted to tell stories.
Sorry for rambling. I’m really looking forward to part 2 today! Thanks for listening!
I think you have it cart before the horse: I think being creative makes you a misfit. Most people aren’t, they just want to passively consume, and not think too hard about their art. But creatives think in complex and unorthodox ways about everything they see, and I think that we ostracize ourselves.
I’m another one sitting here drawing pages on a personal project while wishing someone would have had “that talk” with me. I had good art teachers in HS, and everyone always assumed I was going to art school. But for me it wasn’t a choice between Fine Art and Illustration, it was between Fine Arts and Madison Ave, and I didn’t want to become part of a corporate sales machine. Even though I share the name of a famous comic book artist and have always loved comics, it never really occurred to me that there were alternatives to starving forever or being an ad man. Now 25 years later, I wish I had stuck with it and been drawing the whole time, even though I also feel that my life choices and experiences all contribute to making me a better artist today.
As always, thanks for another thought provoking episode.
Hey Chris!
Always great stuff on your site!
Here’s what Patton Oswalt thinks about whether being a misfit does for being creative 🙂 🙂
http://www.cc.com/video-clips/jsrg5k/stand-up-patton-oswalt–spirit-cave
As for my opinion on it, I have very much appreciated my misfit nature in the past. I feel like it allows me to think out-of-the-box more often and saved me from a lot of conformity, which I see as detrimental to creativity. These days I am working on blending my misfit nature with an all-accepting view of society.
Thanks again for being such an inspiration Chris and everyone. Keep it up!
Hey Chris! Another inspiring story from the Oatley Academy, and it was a smash hit!
Being a misfit can certainly feel like a negative label. For many artists just beginning at a young age, that feeling can pop up at school. Some students don’t seem to “fit in” or belong in any group or category. It feels awful when people or circumstances try to make you feel bad for being who you are, and when they push you to be something you are not, you can very easily loose your sense of direction, even in college.
A fight we have to overcome as creative people is this: When feeling overwhelmed by negative people or crazy things that happen in life, we really need to take a step back and believe in ourselves, acknowledge who we are. Just let your light shine. Let it burn brightly in the midst of opposition. I think that is when you begin to prosper in your work. Your whole being is amplified!
If it helps, think about it this way: being a misfit means you dare to be creative. You think outside of the box. It means more to be creative than to follow a heard. I know from experience that when you let yourself have the freedom that comes when you allow your creativity guide you, you gain strength in the face of negativity. Your work is driven by what you are passionate about, and you learn and grow when you begin allowing what is stirring in your mind and in your heart to come out on canvas. That is a real motivator. It is comforting to know that we are not alone in the world.
This was an inspiring interview Chris. Thank you for what you do. The one talk with Noah Bradley was the first opportunity I got to know the work you do, and that has really helped me through a rough patch in my art education in college. It’s nice to be able to tune in while working to finish my education in animation. It’s informative and helpful. Since discovering you and your awesome Academy, the podcast has really helped me regain my sense of direction and stay on course.
All the best to Jenn and everyone at the Oatley Academy!
Never stop creating.
Very neat interview. It was great to laugh along and become engrossed in the conversation.
I think being a misfit, or being different helps you to accept certain things early on in life. I feel that it makes you more confident to try things or move around outside of the box because you are far less likely to get hung up on what people will think. You’re more willing to trust in the potential adventure before you.
I’m a fine arts major in a regular university rn, and it’s really nice hearing that I could still get a job in animation/illustration/concept art even with a fine arts education.