In part one of this interview, my good friend Jason Brubaker and I discussed his first big break, midlife crises, the brevity of life and the desire to create work with meaning.
Now, in part 2, he tells the story of his unexpected success at DreamWorks Animation and provides fresh perspective on the power of persistence.
Listen To Part 2 Of My Interview With Jason Brubaker:
More From Jason:
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What Are Your Thoughts On Competition?
Do you embrace it or avoid it? Why?
Can a competitive attitude benefit artists without letting it consume them? If so, how?
Please share your thoughts in the comments below!
What a WONDERFUL way to start the day!
7:20am here and an excellent gift in my inbox <3
TY Chris, Jason, and especially Matt Ashcraft. As a graphic designer myself (also web designer – only layout tho no programming) I really know what it is to imbue history and cohesion even in a website, or a graphic, an interactive piece 🙂
One day I will go back to my drawing/illustration, but until then I keep on exercising the story, human experience skills in every and any way I can. And I think that is an opportunity many people miss. Just because you are not directly working with stories and illustrations, doesn't mean you cannot train these human skills (and apply them!) in many different jobs out there.
I loved the part where Jason emphasized "just sit down and finish something" and an opportunity will show up. That is something that is only sinking in now, thanks to Oatley Academy and especially OA Live. I have always been great on dealing with jobs, but my own project, the one that will set a steady ground for many other jobs to come, I used to undervalue it immensely.
You might get jobs without your steady ground, but the shot will often not be focused, the reward might not be all that good, and might deviate a lot from what you want from your life.
Exactly, Paula.
Do the kind of work you want to get paid to do. Match or exceed the quality of the work that is currently being paid for. Be great to work with.
…meeting the requirements are not easy but the requirements are clear.
Thanks for posting! So glad you liked the show!
Well said Paula,
I’m in a similar boat. Life is simply too busy with work, family and long-term projects to focus on drawing & illustration right now. In the meantime, I try to add some form of art/story into whatever I am working on.
It helps keep the creative coals burning while setting up a solid foundation. The next step is to “sit down and finish something”!
The portfolio site as a story.
I thought this was extremely interesting but I’m having a hard time figuring out how to incorporate story into a portfolio site. Does Matt happen to have a link to an example?
Thumbnails being draining was so good to hear! I thought thumbs were supposed to be easy and I always thought something was wrong with me after I felt drained post thumb nailing session.
So good to hear how he handled the endless paint-overs to learn the technique. I have always been thrown into art jobs that I was unprepared for, but I have always been terrified to admit that to my co-workers, so I would try to fake experience. It creates so much unnecessary stress. I think I will just go for the, “I’m here to learn, please teach me.” approach from now on.
Thanks for the great talk!
I think what he means is that the design of your portfolio site should show people who you are. So if you’re a visual artist you would want a home page that shows your art right away. If you’re an animator you would want animations ( .gifs or videos) to be the first thing people see.
The other idea is to make sure that your art says something about the kind of work you want to do as well. So you want to avoid showing cropped images so people can see the entire image right away. Then you also want to make sure you’re images (or what ever you do) is the sort of thing you want to work on.
True. Our point wasn’t to communicate a restrictive template but rather help artists clarify the vision for their portfolio sites.
That said, Sarah, please post any follow-up questions you have in the “Escape From Art Jail” Q&A forums and we’ll try to cover them on future episodes.
Thanks Nick and Chris!
I need to re-do my site for sure. I’ll post a few questions as they percolate. 🙂
Oh, thumbs are super draining… I’ve been doing tons of those lately and they’ve wearing me off completely, so yeah. Nothing’s wrong with your for SURE, haha! Quite the contrary, you’re doing it right 😀
Hey Sarah,
Here, I was primarily talking about having a consistency in your portfolio work. One of the best ways to do this is by making a personal project be your portfolio.
Chris has talked a bunch about the personal projects, but there are two podcasts I’d recommend listening to:
Paper Wings #14
http://oatleyacademy.com/pwp-14-how-to-pick-your-next-personal-project/
ArtCast #65
http://oatleyacademy.com/freelance-illustration-death/
As for an example, check out Noah Bradley’s website: http://www.noahbradley.com/
Even though the homepage is really just artwork, it is carefully curated to only show his best work that follows a theme. These pieces together tell a story.
Hi Matt! Thanks for the response. I’ll be checking that out 🙂
Man, I wish I could start every day with an artcast like this! Talk about inspiring.
I love Jason’s story especially because it shows tangibly the POWER of personal projects, how working on your own stories and art can lead to fantastic opportunities. When he mentioned at one point that his portfolio was nothing but personal work (I think it was when he was applying as a visdev?), I had to take a moment.
Also loved all the talk about not being afraid to ask the questions and learn when you don’t know how to do something. It’s amazing how cyclical learning can be–applying techniques you learn while doing personal projects will enhance your other work, which in turn enables you to gain more opportunities to learn more techniques and it all just builds on each other.
I think competition for artists can be healthy because, if the ArtCast has taught me anything, it’s that no two artists’ stories and experiences are the same. Two artists working towards similar goals will likely end up going down very different paths opened by different opportunities, even if they started with the same endgoal in mind. But that competitive spirit can often be what initially fueled them down those paths. Which is why I think it’s important to always be interacting with other artists and challenged by other artists, but not to let that challenge discourage you.
That is right on, Annamarie.
We really do need to rely on our Circles Of Trust to be a mirror that helps us see and understand ourselves as artists.
We’ll find it basically impossible to understand ourselves if we’re the only person we talk to about ourselves.
Yeah, I’m totally there with you!
I’ve been thinking a *lot* lately on how many people are so afraid to ask questions. How will you know if you don’t ask, right? Asking just shows how much you’re willing to learn, not the shame of not knowing… Aaaand I’m not going on a rant about this. xD
@Chris: Yes! And I think that’s something I’ve been slowly starting to learn recently. With my circle of other artists and creators I know expanding, I’ve been trying to be more forthright with my art and think of more questions I can and should be asking. It may not be the *only* way to grow artistically, but I think it’s hands-down the *best.*
@Ania: I think a lot of people don’t realize that asking a question isn’t a simple “yes or no” interaction. Asking questions opens CONVERSATIONS. It’s all about engaging! My problem’s always been I can never think of questions to ask, and I’ve been trying to improve that, because like you said, questions show that you’re willing and ready to learn. Asking questions puts yourself into whatever you’re reading, watching, etc., and that’s the best way to learn.
I’m still in the middle of the interview but I just wanted to give some thoughts on the really quick:
I think competition is really necessary… to a degree. I think it is good to compete with yourself AND with others. In my opinion, the danger comes when the competition becomes your focus, or the whole reason why you’re doing something. You should be competing with yourself and others in order to improve your work, not improving your work in order to compete with others. It can be a fine line, but an important one.
As with any competition, one must play fair, be a good sport, honor and learn from one’s honorable competitors and understand that not winning the trophy is often more of a motivation than winning it.
Something I wish I said on the episode is – The market *is* competitive. That’s just the reality. Those who aspire to be professional artists are aspiring to engage in a world-wide competition.
In this sense, many artists can learn from the many athletes who have found the positivity and fulfillment of healthy competition.
Exactly. I think a lot of people (usually more in the Fine Art crowd, but you get commercial artists like this sometimes too) get into the whole “Just make your ART the way you WANT to, its great as long as it comes from the HEART!” Ugh, No. There is lots competition in what we are doing (or trying to do). This can be a good thing. Just don’t focus everything on competing. Let the competiton help you to focus back on your ART and help you do improve.
As I said, its a VERY fine line, and maybe the only one who cares about the distinction is me. But that is still what I think.
Our humanity is in the distinction, isn’t it?
Maybe? I guess Humanity is a word that means a lot of different things to me, so its hard to say an absolute yes or no.
I think humanity is part of it, but I’m not sure I’d say that it makes the difference any more clear to me.
I keep thinking of what it is not. The goals aren’t different, because in either case we want to improve our skills. I’m not sure I’d say it was humanity either, because I feel it is very human to get very competitive, BUT it is also very human to be very passionate about improving our skill regardless of the competiton.
I keep coming back to the idea of focus as the distinction, though. Do you want to improve in order to feel like you are so much better than others? Then the competition has become your focus. If you really just want your work to be the best it can be, then the improvement is the focus.
I seem to keep on repeating myself without becoming any more articulate. *sigh*
Haha. I mean that the distinction… The point at which competition becomes unhealthy is really guided by our humanity. …and by “humanity” I mean compassion, empathy, selflessness. The decision to put others first etc.
This almost made me cry. (I had to stop myself because…work)
These past few weeks have been extra hard and listening to Jason’s stories are keeping me motivated during a day job that I’m not fond of. I am an extremely competitive person and always have been. But that has landed me with the fear that I’ll never be ‘good enough’, not in running, not in art, and not in horseback riding. I don’t recall ever putting someone else down for not being good enough, but I’ve definitely done it to myself and still do.
But, and it’s something I’m slowly learning, that it’s okay. Being the best out there is not really a great goal to have. Learning, doing projects, sharing successes, failures, knowledge, and probably most importantly for me, uplifting someone else. Living is a goal. Kindness is a goal. Finishing a personal project is a goal.
I’m not really sure where I was going with that thought. But it was important, whatever it was. Competitiveness has gotten me into trouble… but it has also sometimes helped me overcome some things.
I think the best use of a competitive attitude is when it’s used against that doubting voice in my head. It’s the one that says “Nah, you’re not good enough.” and then my competitive self is like “Oh nu UH! You CAN do this and you WILL do this.” (I’m thinking of that one time during PD1… with the thousand thumbnails….)
Those are my thoughts on this rough morning. Great cast. It’s one of my favorites. Way to go team!
Wow, Britny. You’re basically explaining my own brain to me right now.
Just building on what you’re saying – I think one possible sign of UN-healthy competitiveness is when all the fun goes away.
For most of us artists, when competition stops being fun, it turns into self-punishment or asceticism.
Am I making sense? I’m not sure I have a complete thought on this. I guess what I’m trying to say is that we kind of *sense* when the competition becomes toxic and that a loss of fun can be evidence of that change.
…I guess this wouldn’t make sense to anyone who thinks that fun = easy. …and certainly, there are people who have fun by hurting others. But I think most of us have a fairly robust understanding of fun.
I gotta think about this… It still isn’t a fully formed thought.
Interested in hearing what everyone else thinks.
I think most of us get a sense of enjoyment out of feeling ourselves learn and improve. Not a “this is so easy!” Kind of fun, but a “This is cool and I’m understanding more and more!” kind of fun.
However, when the competition gets in the way, it isn’t “Hooray, I’m improving!” it becomes “I have to do XYZ so my stuff is better than so-and-so’s.” And that isn’t fun.
Maybe? I’m not really explaining this well either.
I think we’re all trying to identify that point at which healthy competition becomes unhealthy.
I think competition is only bad when it starts hurting you.
However, after a pretty long soul searching period, I realized that if you are a competitive person, and you try to run from it, it makes it worse.
When I hurt my arms, I had to come to terms with the that fact that I might never draw again. I hurt it by lifting way too much at the gym and then drawing for hours after every day for months. I wanted to be the best, was unemployed, and I was having anxiety issues, so I exhausted myself and then drew all day and night.
I ended up with nerve damage and tendonitis in both elbows.
So at 28, I might never draw again. I was so depressed but was still alive and needed to figure something out since I had decades more to go. I started to actively practice forgiving myself. I meditated. I did things slowly. I gave myself permission to take an extra day or week. At the time, I needed it. I existed and I was happy enough.
Time passed and I never stopped doing my PT exercises. Eventually, I started drawing again. Then I entered into a 3d art competition. I told myself that I would just finish 1/2 of the model for the deadline, that was my goal. However, 2 weeks before the deadline, I realized I could finish the whole model with a bit of crunch. It was like a wild dream and something in me told me I had to go for it.
I went for it, and I finished my full entry in time. I was so happy, I started crying because for the first time in 2 years I felt alive again. It’s the fight that I crave. You can make art for a lot of reasons, but I make it because I like the fight. Going slowly, giving myself more time, were all necessary when I was hurt, and I’m glad I did it. However, I was also trying to convince myself that that was an okay way for me to live forever. I was denying my own nature,
Now that I know and accept that “the fight” is a very important part of me, Ive been able to use it but I’ve also been able to tell it to shut up when needed.
So I guess what I’m saying is that, “If you are a fighter, don’t run from it. You will always be a fighter. Don’t let it hurt you. Use it. It’s your fight; you are the boss.”
Wow. I am SO glad I stopped on this comment thread right here going on.
Britny and Sarah, your posts just made me tear up a bit. I think competitiveness can be hindering when you start comparing your level of “progress” with people around you. I think Jason actually touched on it in the first artcast. “This person can draw like this at 18, and I’m drawing like this at 25! I’m so behind!” kind of stuff.
You (as in a general “you”) forget that your goal isn’t to be able to draw exactly like that other artist–what you perceive as “as good” as them. It’s to progress in your own artistic journey–a journey that will not be the same as theirs or anyone else’s.
As long as you’re progressing on your own path, I think you should always have confidence and comfort in that. If you focus on what your path “should” be, in comparison to what you see others doing, rather than what it CAN be (considering your own personal resources, goals, lifestyle, etc.), you’ll only start discouraging yourself and hurting your progress! Looking at others can give you ideas and inspiration and good lessons, but it shouldn’t *define* your path. Only you can do that.
That got really long. Did that make sense?
It made sense to me, Annamarie. I love the fact that these discussions get as interesting as the actual podcast!
I’m having trouble with the competition word, though. I’ve never considered myself competitive at all. I guess it has some negative feel for me, like it means you want to become better than others and that would put others below you (even if it isn’t like that). I think I prefer to define myself as ambitious, which I see more related to what Annamarie was saying about remembering it’s your own path that you want to improve, it’s your own success, and it doesn’t necessarily involve comparing yourself to others’ success.
Of course I also get super inspired -and super depressed sometimes- when seeing my favourite artists’ work. But I try to remember at all times that I don’t really want to draw like they do, I just want to be that great in my own work, with my own style. I guess this thought is what keeps other artists as healthy inspiration for me. Just appreciating what they are great at, and learning from it, ahile avoiding comparing our careers as artists (Are they younger than me? How fast did they get to where they are? Did they go to a great art school?…). Wondering about this stuff makes me reflect on what level “I should be” in my life, and that’s never healthy for me.
When I actually get to know artists real stories, like in this case with Jason, it ends up being really inspiring, though. They end up showing how hard they had to work to get where they are, and I feel portrayed in many ways, so it’s very encouraging 🙂
One of my favorite “competition” stories is from the days I was a toy designer for (now defunct) Trendmasters. We were working with an animation studio to work up a new Ghostbusters show (Extreme Ghostbusters–didn’t last long, but that’s beside the point). Our art director announced that this project was a go, and told the artists to try coming up with some character designs based on the material we had received from the animation studio (this was a long time ago, late nineties, forgive me but I can’t remember the name of the studio). I had never spearheaded a toyline at this point, and something in me just said it was time to step up. Another artist there (we were all good friends, by the way) was kind of the assumed “winner” of this informal contest, but I took the bit between my teeth and drew my little fingers off. It turned out that my bosses liked my stuff the best, and the animation studio actually re-designed one of the characters they were working on to look like mine. As a result, my input contributed a lot to how the final designs looked on the series. A major reason why I pulled this out of myself was admiration for how my colleagues worked, and a desire to match or exceed their performance. Not out of envy or conflict, but inspiration.
That’s an awesome story, Dave!
…and you’re identifying another benefit of competition – it prevents us from getting old, grumpy and complacent.
I talked about that in this article: http://chrisoatley.com/inner-critic/
You certainly discovered a treasure in that experience! I think it would be healthy to remember we all need to continually step up, all our lives!
I loved the discussion about the daily grind. That’s my daily reality and I’m become grateful for it because it’s helping me overcome the laziness I might have if I were already allowed to develop features all day – as I’ve dreamed. I hope I’ll be ready once my career shifts toward these “dreams.”
The Animator track is not my end goal, but I like it enough to work at it every day and I’m learning so much from the intensity. At the same time, I “dislike” it enough that I’m motivated to push my personal projects. Stories like Jason’s reaffirm the need for this balance.
Jason was already an inspiration to me, but this interview blew some new doors open in my mind. Jason’s story is proof that anything can happen as long as you’re willing to jump in and get get your hands dirty with hard work. Sometimes I’m scared to tackle the unknown, but Jason story gives me courage to jump in anyway.
As for competition, for the most part I love seeing something I can do and trying to learn to get that into my own work. I love sharing my own tips as well, because it helps cement them into my mind. When I really feel the need to improvement, I often show my work to someone who I feel has qualities I lack.
Once in awhile, I get discouraged, feeling inferior to other artists, but I think that’s part of being human. A simple reminder (which often comes from my wife) of how far I’ve personally progressed generally breaks the curse. And then I often reference these “intimidating” artists’ work as I craft my own.
Thank you thank you thank you for this episode. It was truly invigorating.
Thanks, Scott! SO glad you like the interview. You are the best, brother.
Yes. Just… yes to everything you said. 🙂
This is indeed a great way to start the day. Thank you Chris and Jason, it is inspiring to hear your stories. How fearless you were, jumping in the unknown of a new job and nailing it with grit and hunger for knowledge.
I’m sorry to hear you are having a hard time Britney, Here, have some cookies OOOO.
Magali knows that, at OA, “cookies” is the magic word.
If I wasn´t at least a tiny bit competitive, I would have given up a long time ago. If you look hard enough, you find enough reasons to quit.
I think of competitiveness as a kickstarter though, not an end goal. Competitiveness is good to get you going again when you hit the bottom.
But I don´t HAVE to be the best all the time. And I am happy to see other people taking home wins. One of the hardest things I had to learn is that “wins” is not a finite resource. If someone else is better at something than I am, it doesn´t mean I can´t excell at something else. Or that I cant reach that goal at a later time.
That’s SO true, Maike… That’s another signal that our competitiveness is turning unhealthy – when we can’t be happy for someone else’s victory.
Seeing competition as a Kickstarter is a great metaphor! I think the difference may be being competitive for a greater goal vs being competitive to be competitive.
Also, people can get bitter when they’re not seeking their true goal. Like, you think your goal is working at Disney, but you’re actually passionate about making commercials fro non-profits. You’d get grumpy because you’re aiming in the wrong direction and getting nowhere!
I’m sorry, I have rambled into a random direction!
This interview is phenomenal! I can’t write that big enough!! Will be sharing it multiple times this next week! Something about just take a chance on yourself and having other take notice. I started getting into comics earlier this year and it’s getting better, but by taking a chance on myself, things are opening up for me and looking forward to what doors open up after it!! Truly wonderful 😀
GREAT to hear that doors are opening, Noah. And thank you for the kind words and for sharing the podcast. That’s indescribably helpful.
I’m delighted to hear that you liked the interview.
I can relate to that Noah! Taking a chance on yourself is huge. I too forced myself to give a personal comic project my all. It was terrifying and I had to override my thoughts of “but I’m not making and money, what if this doesn’t lead anywhere?” I’m so glad I did! Doors are opening for me too.
Open door buddies! 😛
The part about hard work was both a kick-in-the-b-no-no reminder and an encouragement. With the decisions I’m facing soon, this interview has been inspiring and very helpful.
I ALWAYS look at other artists and puppeteers and think “I’ll never get to that point.” And then I get discouraged. While I think, “I need to work harder to get as good or better than them,” life makes motivation go down the tubes and I just watch the Muppet Show and eat potato chips all night. Perhaps having a clearer goal in mind will help.
Watching The Muppet Show and eating potato chips all night? Sounds like paradise.
Brett and I drove out to see Julie Zobel from The Henson Creature Shop last Sunday. She did a SUPER-geeky presentation where she showed us deconstructed Muppets, skinless Muppets, abandoned Muppet prototypes, working animatronics and MORE. It was uhMAYzing!!!
I’m glad to hear you’re a fellow Henson super-fan.
Have you seen this yet: http://www.toughpigs.com/unboxing/
Sigh. Unfortunately paradise often only gives me weight gain, rough mornings and a weird desire to be born in a different decade. If I give myself a break, wait for the tiniest spark of inspiration, then i can start drawing and/or put on a puppet again.
You were at the Tough Pigs unboxing thing?!! I’ve been waiting to watch those videos until my jealousy subsides a little.
I was invited to audition for Brian Henson at the studio in LA this summer. Wasn’t chosen for the workshop but it was a super scary-fun experience!
Yes! Huge Henson fan! You could say we have a “rainbow connection.” ;D But that might be a little too cheesy.
Hi Chris,
Great episode! I love the segment about how you have no idea how you got into disney. I feel like that all the time. Theres so many amazing artist at these studios, but I think sometimes you have something to offer that others see in you, even if you don’t see it yourself. (At least thats my running theory for why I keep getting work)
I think of competition as a tool. Theres times where you feel like your are not progressing, or perhaps you feel to optimistic about where your at. Those times are great to look outside your work to see what you can improve to get to the next level. I think there are also times where you are working through problems in your work, and you need to push through and ignore outside influence until you solve all the issues that are within your current skill level. When it comes to personal projects, sometimes your figuring out your ‘voice’ and you’ll only find those answers within.
Regardless its always good to infuse your mind with good art/photography/literature/film so you have a good quality mental imagery to pull from even if you are not directly comparing.
rant over.
thanks for listening.
I have a lot of comments to comment on! Great interview guys. I always like hearing the details of someone’s path to success. It’s kind of like rough drawings being much more appealing than the polished versions (generally). The polished success story isn’t nearly as insightful or interesting! I’ve been really loving doing visual development for my next comic volume so it was interesting to see that that could be used toward a career in a different medium!
Competition. I compete a lot with myself actually. “Is this really the best you can do?” A lot of times the answer is no and I ramp up the effort. But I’ve learned that it’s important to sometimes say “Yes. This is the best I can do right now. I gave this my all. Now I can work on the things I need to improve for next time.”
Another awesome podcast! I can’t wait for the Paper Wings portion. It’s gonna be amazing, I can feel it 😀
I feel like I’m living the exact feelings you and Jason discussed regarding “What did that studio ever see in me?!” In one week I’ll be interviewing for the largest opportunity in my career yet, and I can’t help but wonder what the heck they see in my portfolio compared to a much more experienced, professional artist. I’m trying not to let it throw me off, but there’s still that tiny voice in my head going “Really? Me? Are you sure?”
As for competition, I think it’s good to strike a balance. I also disagree with the whole “Don’t compare yourself to others, do your own thing!”, because if we refuse to compare our work to some level of quality, we’ll grow complacent as artists and ultimately defensive of our work. I’ve seen far too many artists with a chip on their shoulder about it, and no surprise, their art hasn’t changed or improved much over months or years.
On the other hand, being over-competitive is damaging because it turns your peers into rivals. Like you guys talked about, you learned a lot by lovingly pestering colleagues for tips. It’s important to challenge yourself and hold yourself to a high standard, but it’s also crucial to foster a sense of teamwork and help those around you. Because by helping others grow, you can learn something too, and foster those relationships that will help you down the way.
Personally, this is an excellently timed show to touch on the topics involved. Competition with myself to be better, to the point of definitely being too hard on myself, is definitely something I’m dealing with lately. At this point, I don’t even *want* to become a comics artist or animator or whatever. I just want to do my comic series and see where that goes. Just kidding, that’s too big – ok how about this short comic as practice to do the big series? Honey, that’s actually too big too, how about a one-page comic?
So, it hurts to feel like I’m constantly downsizing my aspirations, but I need to internalize the thought that this is ok. I’m not downsizing, I just have my vision of what I’ll be as like a level 80 artist, and have to work backwards to figure out what my levels 67, 33, 19, and 2 look like. And maybe I just need work to be broken down into smaller pieces than other people do.
Another great show! It’s great to hear Jason, Matt, and Chris talk about such varied experience.
Bah. You’re not downsizing anything! All of those goals are still there. You’re just adding goals before them! Also, it may work like the “declare that you’ll only work 20 mins,” and you end up working for an hour.
So maybe you just do a page. Then you look up and you’ve done 5! Or maybe you’ll just do one and realize you need a collaborator. Either way you’ll have completed something and won! 🙂
I totally lost it when Jason was describing his first city driving experiences. I was born and raised in Nowhere, Montana, and then I moved to the fourth largest city in the U.S. (My husband in the passenger seat: “Honey, this is called a freeway. You may notice there are multiple lanes and no tractors.”)
I feel like I’m more competitive with myself than anything. When I start producing lazy art, my inner coach starts foaming at the mouth (“Well that may have been good enough for you six months ago, but it sure as heck ins’t good enough for you now. Now sit down and make your past self proud!”). I feel like that sort of competitiveness is pretty healthy. I ensures that each piece I do is a little better than the last.
I can definitely relate to that bit about not having enough mental bandwidth. I would get that sometimes coming home from a day of a soul-sucking job (a job which I quit last month). Even if my brain is literally imploding, I try to force myself to do something in my sketchbook every day… at least for 15 minuets.
About competition, I don’t really think I’m very competitive. If anything, I think my biggest competitor is myself – whenever I start something new, I always have the goal of making it better than the thing I made before. I get upset when I can’t outdo myself. So in that regard, I guess I am competitive XD
When it comes to other people, I think the best attitude to have is to be happy for them and to use their success/talent as inspiration — they’re just people, not machines with the goal of making you feel bad about yourself. Especially if the artist is a peer, when I notice a strength I try to use it as inspiration to become better; “Oh, friend over here is good at drawing hands… I should do hand studies”. Sometimes I get jealous of other artists, even peers, but I think everyone gets that sometimes right?
Thankfully, I’ve been getting so much better with being jealous and the “I’m not good enough” complex.
I caught the episode before going to bed last night, yes i’m a night person, so thanks for keeping me up later. (In a good way)
Sometimes think of being competitive as making your work being competitive (up to par with the industry standards etc) and not being individually competitive with another artist/person is helpful. Yes it’s hard not to take things personally when it’s your art but the first thing people see is the art and not always the person behind it. The same way in which we see something new that we like then we find out who the person was or is that did it.
Another thing that struck me was, as Jason did, to try new things, ask questions and make connections with people. Hearing him talk about how his first after effects piece was ‘meh’ yet just having some knowledge and the prior connections and work ethics earned their trust and got him on a new project to develop and learn more. Your project doesn’t always have to be the very best( just your best at the time) but get it done so you have something.
It’s obvious Jason is on the path he was meant to follow after hearing everything.
Matt had a lot of good insight into viewing everything as a story and Chris is always full of helpful information and advice.
another wonderful podcast! I especially liked the part where jason said to at least finish something, even if it’s really crappy because you never know if that little something could lead to something bigger.
for me in terms of competition, I don’t like it and tried to avoid a much as possible because i see it as once something becomes a competition all the enjoyment and fun gets taken away from it, if i want to do something i should do it for the enjoyment of it, not because i want to win or be better then some one else. I used to be in the whole competition thing by entering contests and what not, but i never won anything and everyone was always so much better then me, and i would end up getting disappointed a spent all the work and effort for nothing, so i stopped trying. i saw it as why bother when i would just set myself up for failure. if i want to partake in any kind of competition, it would be with my myself to do my work better then it previous was.
as for comparing yourself with out artists, it’s kind of unavoidable with the internet and all these different artist community websites now, we are constantly seeing what other artists have done and comparing ourselves to be good as that other artist. it is very easy to slip in the downward spiral of ” i will never be as good as these artists”, but i figure that best way to avoid that is don’t view it as a competition, but rather use the artist around you as inspiration and see it as what did they do to get that good or popular, etc?
Great interview!!!!!
As a costume artist, I try to always find something to admire in the work of my competitors. Then I let them know that I respect them. In this way I try to help build the validity and dignity in the work of all costumers, including my own. Evolution of the craft demands that it not be a zero sum game, but rather a win/win.
It’s always great to hear and read thought of beautiful minds i had never seen such an great group of people, whether it is people from OA, pod cast or those who are commenting on them.
As for me i was really fascinated by what Mr. Ashcraft said about story telling in websites. Being a part of web development company I have understood that when a client comes to a company they expect a site that tells the website viewer about their company. well let’s just say when i hear the project manager explain the whole story about the client they speak of designing so differently which makes it feel so dull especially when you i sit with a programmer, they speak to me in terms of programming language. Hearing a different approach really did excite me. In fact I was more enthusiastic about my job.
Now i’m wondering if the same theory could be applied in programming. May be i’m thinking unnecessarily. LOL
I don’t think anyone understood what i am trying to say.
wow.
This was really inspiring. Thank you so much for sharing all these thoughts.
I am a very competitive person, but I think that I never wanted that much anything that I was doing, like I do now with drawing and storytelling.
Right now I’m struggling with myself, repeating everyday that I do not need to be perfect (and of course I never will). Since I discovered these chris oatley’s podcasts (few months ago) everything is getting much easier, happier, intense, enriching, that I can’t almost believe it.
I think I am still very competitive, but the way my mind is changing about it, is just the way my own world is. All the feedback, all the lessons that I’m learning from great artists but above all great people, just by listening to them sharing their thoughts!!
Seems that the competition now takes a different shape, abetter one, a growing one.
Thank you again. Still learning and hoping that i will forever!
Great episode! Greatly enjoyed your conversation.
Competition. I think it’s essential, on so many levels. I’m 38, ugh, and I feel like I’m really only just starting to understand the value of evaluating where I am at in my development as an artist and story teller. It’s hard to take honest stock of where I’m at but it’s refreshing to feel like I have an honest self evaluation in place which I can now work against.
I think my biggest challenge in this new found clarity is the component of time. My age and time in general are against me it seems. Now, being the father of 2 wonderful kids, a husband, business owner and casual farmer on our little farm, it is very challenging to fit the time to grow. I greatly appreciated the perspective that Jason shared regarding just getting those personal projects done. That has been a real challenge for me. However, my business partner and I are starting to see that need and taking action. I also feel that my personal journey is bound to timing that is purposeful. 15 years ago, I wouldn’t have been able to see clearly my need to grow, nor did I have the same level of maturity that I do now. These things inform my ability to tell the stories I want to tell. So, I must accept my situation and rather than allow time and age to deter me, figure our ways to work more intelligently. Spending my time at my desk on projects for our clients at Pulp Studios Inc. in a very wise way. Not squandering it. But being focused and efficient so that I still have the mental energy to put into my personal work.
It’s a dream and a hope that one day I’ll have a studio on my property where I focus on story telling through children’s books, novels and graphic novels. Recognizing the limits on my current level of skill and capacities will help me move forward with wisdom, purpose, motivation and tenacity.
Competition is key, but also, honest collaborators are key. People who will let you know when something isn’t singing. My wife and my business partner are wonderful for this. Their loving discontent with my work helps me see the work more objectively. So so valuable! I imagine this is more easily accessible in a larger studio environment like disney or dreamworks.
I’m curious if anyone has any words of wisdom around time management in a framework similar to what I outlined above ie family, business, home responsibilities. I feel like I’m making progress but am always open to opinions and input.
Thanks again for the work you are doing at Oatley Academy and with these podcast. So much to chew on! Wonderful.
Corey