Are You Good Enough? Tough Truths For True Artists: With Will Terry :: ArtCast #66

willterry-nightowl2I’m going to ask you a question and I need you to be honest with me…

Don’t hold back.

Whatever the answer is, I can take it…

Am I good enough?

Do I have what it takes to succeed as a professional artist?

Artists ask me this all the time.

…and not just young, aspiring artists but seasoned pros as well.

My response is always “No.”

“No, you’re not good enough, nor am I.

…and we never will be.”

And that, my friends is an encouraging revelation.

Children’s illustrator, app author and art guru Will Terry joins me for what I think is one of the best episodes of the ArtCast ever recorded.

So if you want to rid yourself of the insecurity that comes from constantly worrying that you’ll never be good enough, click through and listen…

Listen To The Podcast:

willterry-birdyworm2Here’s an amusingly-ironic bit of Will Terry trivia:

As a student, Will was almost kicked out of the art school. …and now he teaches there.

The first thirty minutes of the episode is basically an interview about Will’s career.

From his time as a failing art student to his current career-reinvention as a creator of interactive storybook apps for children, Will’s story is inspiring.

The following hour is an exploration of this question: “Am I Good Enough?”

Though we do attempt to answer this question, we’re more interested in providing better questions that we think you should be asking…

Play

“I believe that everyone has greatness in them. …and I think regret is never knowing what that is.”
-Will Terry

Episode Highlights:

  • What Chris thinks is the rarest and most valuable artistic skill.
  • Why the key to a long, successful creative career is now the complete opposite of what it was ten years ago.
  • How the opportunities for creative professionals are more numerous than ever before.
  • How the definition of “illustrator” has changed forever.
  • How to respond when your “personal style” goes out of fashion.
  • What is true creativity?
  • How you might be taking the benefits of the Internet for granted.
  • Why a job at Disney (or some other studio) usually isn’t enough to completely fulfill you as an artist.
  • Why failure is necessary for artistic success.

Links Mentioned:

willterry-ent2Will Terry’s Portfolio

Will Terry’s Blog

Gary’s Place by Will Terry

Don’t Let The Pigeon Drive The Bus by Mo Willems

Snowmen At Night by Mark Buehner

Brad Holland

Dave Rapoza

Kwik

Where To Learn More:

Why Won’t Anyone Pick You?

How To Make A Storybook App

“The Death Of Freelance Illustration” With Noah Bradley

Will’s Speech To Illustration Students:

Will just released an awesome YouTube Series and an amazing blog post which provide a well-reasoned (and inspiring) explanation of the “death” of freelance illustration which has been validated by some of the top editorial illustrators in the world.

Watch his “Speech To Illustration Students” video series in the YouTube playlist above and then head to his blog to read Where Are All My Freelance Jobs?

What Do YOU Think?

What is the most important thing you (and your fellow artists) can do to maintain a healthy perspective on your own work and skill level?

Subscribe & Get My FREE Digital Painting Kit!

[ I will never spam you or share your information ]

{ 48 comments… read them below or add one }

Paul McKay

Great talk guys. I took so much from that I don’t know where to start. To hear two industry veterans talking seriously and passionately about the practicalities of becoming a working artist, particularly in this brave new digital world is so valuable. I believe I’ll be able to listen to this one again and again.

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Chris Oatley

So glad you found value in the show, Paul. Great to have you on board at Oatley Academy!

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mal

Gotta agree with Paul – so much insight, it takes a second to know where to begin! I think my biggest thing is just getting the confirmation that “doing it”
is absolutely essential. I went out the other night with friends, and I have to admit I was only half present. I couldn’t stop thinking about finished first page of a new project – I was proud of myself and f**king ravenous to get to the second one. Following that feeling, pursuing your craft in your free time, is a must. Make your hobby a second job until it can become the first..or something :)

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Chris Oatley

Yeah, Mal. You’re right on. It’s understandable why so many artists want to be paid to pursue their passion, but it’s just as important to remember that you don’t HAVE to be paid to pursue it. Everyone I know who IS getting paid to pursue their passion did it for free for a long time before they made their first dollar…

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Ian Topple

It was great to hear you guys talk. You keep mentioning that we can use social media to our benefit. Could you do a podcast specifically on how to do that? I feel like just posting your work out there doesn’t work. Maybe a few people will see it but that’s it. Is there something else that I’m missing? I posted a holiday-card I made for the company I work at on facebook the other day. I can see a big improvement in my work from last year but I only got 5 likes. Either not many people have seen it or they don’t like. I honestly feel this is one of the best things I’ve done. What is your opinion?

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Chris Oatley

Hi, Ian. There are a bunch of podcasts where I discuss social media.

Check out both talks with Noah Bradley, the one with Matt Kohr, the one with Brett Bean and my blog post about the Two Secrets To Success In Animation:

http://chrisoatley.com/become-a-professional-artist/

http://chrisoatley.com/freelance-illustration/

http://chrisoatley.com/photoshop-cc/

http://chrisoatley.com/brett-bean-character-designer/

http://chrisoatley.com/2secretssuccess/

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Alexandra

I would like to thank you for uploading this episode with Will Terry. I have been following your podcast and Will’s blog for quite some time, so for me it was a nice surprise to listen to you guys talk, and I have to say that you were spot on with this topic. Took the time to listen from start to finish on Christmas Eve and I consider it to be my artsy present. Again thank you Chris!

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Chris Oatley

Awesome! Merry Christmas, Alexandra!

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Steve Menard

Great talk guys. Within the next two weeks I’ll be beginning your course Chris, and if I want to get anywhere at all, I have to seriously cut back on my addiction to watching pro sports on TV.

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Chris Oatley

Hey, Steve. I look forward to seeing you in The Oatley Academy! And yeah, cutting back on time-scucks is, in my opinion, essential. As The Byrds remind us: “To every thing there is a season…”

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David

Dear Chris, first I wish you happy holydays. I am still listening to your podcast but I can already tell something I experienced during this year.

As I have so many thoughts, my following text might turn out to be a little excursive, but let’s see…

I worked harder than ever and always was on my “hunt for the next milestone”. For about 3-4 years I did tons sketches, I did drawings, I started to use more traditional tools than ever before since early 2013. But over time it used up almost all my energy, constantly. Then I noticed something: I can learn very fast and get used to techniques and new stuff by using traditional tools.

Over time though, I almost forgot how it feels to have fun. There was, and there is, always passion left, otherwise I wouldn’t go on. Giving up is no option, of course. But what I neglected, almost, was that I am not running on infinite energy.
Digital art, for some reason, became something less interesting to me. It always felt like I skip the practice with digital tools. And diving on traditional tools more than ever just gave me a new boost for improvements, also for digital tools (as digital works the same as traditional, basically). So taking my time with an acrylic painting for 3 weeks (aside from client work) made me improving twice as much in a shorter amount of time. Maybe it is because traditional tools have this… it feels like I really dive into my work. Whereas digital feels mostly like skipping the hard work that makes me improving.

I do a lot of personal projects as well, it is for an own story.

However, the year 2013 was still my best year. I found a small client who hired me for his book series (and lots of future work) just because I am doing what I am doing. Do you know what I mean? So I don’t have to try to be someone else, as I just can illustrate with my “own handwriting” and he is very happy about that. I can be just myself, that’s why he hired me. So this question, whether I am good enough or not, started to fade a little bit at least.

Finding the right client is something very important, I guess.

Now that feel I have with personal work, that I can be just myself, is very close to working with that client.

In any case I noticed that I have to reorganize my schedule. I have to be more efficient with my workflow, so there lies my weakpoint. I waste too much energy during work, I have to be more efficient to feel less tired during a year.

I simply was afraid that I’d have not enough time for everything that I planned to do, so that is why I started to work every day, every week, every month, while ignoring that I need to recover as well.

My question, I always ask myself, would be rather: Am I working enough? I often answer myself with: No.

The thing is, that I have to find out how to, maybe, balance my workflow more efficiently.

All in all I noticed that the industry seems to start running faster and faster after something, that somehow makes no sense to me. It is like an endless circle. People start running after each other’s backs, because this is what seems to be the goal. Young artists who see that this specific thing (per example realism and desaturated colourschemes) is what makes professional artists famous, seem to start running after these artist’s dreams or visions. Because they think this is the only way to be “famous”.

It feels like more and more people run after other people’s dreams.

And therefore they neglect their own dreams…

Maybe it is just me, but I don’t want to become a part of that circle. It seems everything I see, per example in the videogame industry, feels “the same”. To be honest, that is why I rarely play videogames.

I have my favourites, and I love “The Art of…”-books of many projects, but somehow… for me it doesn’t feel like that magic, of the early concepts, continues to live within the finished products. At least that is what I feel for most games (also movies).

I am searching for a way to make a difference.

Before I end my message:

Thanks for all your help, Chris. Without you I might have lost the track of my way, of being an illustrator, over time.

I won’t ever give up, thanks to you.

Cheers!

- David

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Ian Topple

“Maybe it is just me, but I don’t want to become a part of that circle. It seems everything I see, per example in the videogame industry, feels “the same”. To be honest, that is why I rarely play videogames.”

I thought I was the only one that felt that way! I feel like video game art doesn’t have much of a personality either but I guess there isn’t much you can do when most games are realistic.

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David

Yes, I guess it is a sort of trend maybe. While I find most of the designs and concepts pretty cool from “The Art of—” books (and mostly of those games that have a certain style to them, like Darksiders) or other game projects, it lacks this kind of personality in the finished product from what I can tell. But I feel it is getting worse and that even the conceptual design starts to feel more or less the same compared to each other.

In any case you are not the only one feeling that way. Many of my colleagues and friends feel the same too.

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Chris Oatley

Valid points, David and Ian.

David, it sounds like you’re on the right track. You know what you need to do next. The hard part is maintaining discipline over the long haul.

I would also encourage you to focus on the fundamentals. Conversations about and struggles with style are valid, but they often become a distraction because the real problems are fundamental – beneath the surface.

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David

Hello Chris,

yes I agree. I think there is something that makes me thinking too complicated. Maybe it is because I somehow get distracted by techniques, tools, etc. , whereas it is the fundamentals, my roots I need to make stronger.

It is a perfect goal for 2014.

Thanks for being there for us, Chris!

Many greetings,

- David

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Steve Menard

A scary thought for me is that I’m beginning to believe that I am destined for mediocrity. I’m stubbornly combatting those thoughts, and more importantly, I’m determined to actually take action to dispel those beliefs. Spousal support is VERY important in these situations.

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Chris Oatley

True re: spousal support, Steve.

I find this term “destiny” to be, at best, a benign ambiguity and at worst, a self-defeating placebo.

I find “calling” to be a much more accurate term for describing our artistic experience. …and I think, regardless of your present frustrations, you’re never condemned to mediocrity, rather, eternally called to higher art.

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Steve Menard

I agree. Becoming a ‘creation center’ is the key. Move people, and hopefully monetize your creative output. With the internet, there is of course more opportunity, but like a kid in a candy store, there is too much to choose from. It is difficult to focus one’s efforts.

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Chris Oatley

It’s way easier to focus one’s efforts under the tutelage of a wise teacher/ mentor and/or while engaging with a healthy circle of trust. Neither are as hard to find as it often seems.

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Scott Wiser

Well the first 30 minutes was GREAT. Can’t wait to listen to listen to the rest, but our Christmas activities are about to begin.

But first, I HAD to voice that I have also thought about this “cog in the wheel” conundrum for quite sometime. And being in a position where several studios are close to hiring me, I’ve been (feeling a little foolish) spending only a percentage of my time of animated tests and the other percentage developing personal I.P.s. I feel very fortunate that this “foolishness” actually gained the attention of my DREAM STUDIO I may work with in the near future. Yet I still struggle to know whether I’m working on the right project. Right now I’m hitting animation hard in my personal time, but I know once I finish this current shot, I’ll want to revisit my personal book project.

And don’t get me started on my work projects (they’ve told me to decide what my next development will be … yikes) We’re currently working on a music video with some animation mixed with live action. It feels crazy a lot of the time, but it is so much fun and people are really excited about it…and I’m gaining new perspective on the power of collaboration.

Anyway, thanks for addressing this issue. I can’t wait to hear the rest and I wish you all a Merry Christmas!

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Chris Oatley

I’m very interested to hear your thoughts on the rest of the episode, Scott.

Honestly, my advice to you is the same as it was six months ago – in the words of Mike Greenholt:

If it ain’t broke, don’t break it.

What you’re doing is working. BIG TIME. Just look at the progress you’ve made in ALL areas since this time last year. It’s mind-blowing. Look at your animation, your character designs, your painting, your blog, your social media, your network etc… IT’S ALL GROWING AT A BREAKNECK PACE!

As everyone here knows, I always discourage artists from focusing on more than one (mAAAAAAybe two, but probably not) areas at once. …but it does work for some artists. If I’m right in my assessment, you’ve found a groove that is working and until you begin to detect that some part of your process is NOT working or needs to be tweaked or deleted, I would just encourage you to keep your eye on the prize and stay the course.

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Scott Wiser

Haha, Awesome. Thanks Chris! The rest of the podcast was even MORE timely. I was offered a more “practical” job recently that meant putting my creative journey on hold – but it offered me amazing benefits and more “stability”!?!?! But I’M TURNING IT DOWN. You guys reminded me that I’m SO CLOSE.

When my wife were discussing the future the night before I finished listening to this episode and we had an uncannily similar conversation about how we perceive “success”. When she asked me my definition of success, we both realized we’re more “successful” than we have ever been. I love Will’s point that it has never been easier for artists to succeed because of this booming internet age. I completely believe that!

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Tegan Clancy

Scott, success can only be measured against what you believe success is. The opportunities you have had over the last year I believe makes you successful artistically, enjoy it!

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Pronoy Dutta

Hi Chris!

Thank you so much for posting this. I’ve been out of art college seven months and a lot of these questions are important for me too. Listening to y’all, I’ve realized the change in perspective, and more significantly, how brave and resilient one needs to be to take up this field. The whole, ‘will I be able to do something with my art ‘, and the doubt are really addressed here ……. It’s kinda like you going through that Bug’s life book you owned….. the big changes in my understanding and the food for thought here are things I didn’t think of…

I have a lot of work ahead of me, like we all do, but the big questions are the ones that matter… the really big, non- art related ones…

thanks so much :D Also, I’m doing your magic box course too …. it’s a big big help

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Chris Oatley

I’m so glad the podcast was a help, Pronoy. …and I’m so happy that The Magic Box is making a difference in your work.

Thanks for sharing. I think you really nailed it with your point about how we often focus on the wrong problems because we lack perspective on big questions. That’s one of the main reasons why mentors and circles of trust are so incredibly important.

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Teshia Lyndall

Haha, when you described the homeless person doing the App you pretty much just defined my life 3 years ago.

I think after being homeless I stopped worrying about whether or not I would make it because I knew what would happen if I didn’t. It just doesn’t scare me anymore, and to be honest if I had to be homeless again I would still be able to manage a very nice life. Partially because of the society I live in, and also because of how much more prepared I am for the situation.

Being ready is really as simple as pressing send. You’ll never feel ready, but do it anyway.

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Chris Oatley

Well, this is inspiring. Thanks, Teshia.

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Elly Medeiros

Hello Chris! Happy holidays!

I am just so glad to have found your website and started listening to your podcasts! My life is in such a huge revolution of change right now, all thanks to you and all the books you recommend with Lora on Paper wings! I’m finishing “Quitter” by John Acuff right now and I’m heading on to “The Big Dip” by Seth Godin. Just by reading, listening to your podcasts and feeling inspired everyday, I already significantly improved on my art and the speed I finish things! So THANK YOU SO MUCH!

I’m right now getting ready to sit with my wife to take a full look at our finances and take full control of that, so we can find out how much we can give up and cut off costs in order for me to tackle more of my time into improving my art and getting my projects done with discipline and diligence. My main plans for 2014 is to start the Magic Box at your academy and finish a short story comic. I’m taking in all that I can from your tips to have these goals fulfilled by the end of next year!

My question now is this: How are you managing to balance time with family and work when so much is going on during the day? When I get into drawing or painting mode, I get so into it that I sometimes forget about everything else and just want to keep doing it the whole day! I’m definitely going to start doing more of all the work that I can early in the morning as suggested by your Resolutions Artcast. I think that will definitely help! If you don’t mind me asking, how long did it take you to truly make it a routine and manage to balance your time well between your work, art and your wife, family & friends?

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Chris Oatley

I’m happy to hear that the books and podcasts are helping.

Budgeting is key. It helps you understand what your priorities truly are and what you need to do to adjust them.

RE: Family time: Fortunately, I’ve been able to hire a couple of folks at various points over the past year to help out with OA. That has made a huge difference. I still work a ton, but recently I’ve been taking Sundays off and my all-nighters have been few and far between. Those two factors have brought a tremendous amount of balance back into my life.

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Brandon

OMG THIS PODCAST CHANGED EVERYTHING FOR ME! This is your best yet. It was like you were speaking directly to me. Over he last 4 to 5 months I have had the mindset that I MUST work as an illustrator. I now feel that it’s not that necessary. What is more important is that I keep loving the art that I do.

You see Chris, I’ve had the pleasure of drawing a few commissioned portraits and disliked every minute of it, as I was not drawing what I felt like in that moment. In your interview something was mentioned about not liking your art. How could I draw or paint subjects that I have no love of in a paid job or contract? Like a fine artist I would have a better chance of creating from my heart and if someone else likes it then they can buy it.

I have been constantly questioning myself if I’m good enough to do this for a job, causing so much internal stress. Now I can let this go and just create for the sake of it. Thank you Chris.

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Chris Oatley

Thank YOU, Brandon. It’s so funny how we’ll find ourselves spending tremendous amounts of time and energy trying to get good at something we don’t even WANT to get good at. Hahahaha…

Of course, true artistic growth isn’t all sunshine and bunny hugs, but if we’re fundamentally unfulfilled by a certain creative pursuit, what’s the point? Life’s too short…

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Will Terry

After listening to the Pod cast I wish I had inserted these words, “Sometimes working as a “cog” is the perfect way to learn the trade, become a better artist and craftsman, and solidify your ideas about creative solutions to story problems. I know many artists who are more free today to create what they want from the experiences they had while working under the umbrella of a studio. There are many paths to becoming creator/artist/entrepreneur and they all include extremely hard work.” – Will Terry

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Chris Oatley

Great point, Will. Yeah, I try to always keep in mind that I would never have been able to create The Oatley Academy if not for my time at Disney. …it simply never would have happened.

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Chris Perry

I enjoyed the discussion about Buehner. Crystal clear discussion. I took lots of notes.

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Chris Oatley

I was inspired to learn about him as well. Thanks, Chris!

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Dave

This is awesome! Although I thought I was listening to a little Glen Beck at the beginning hehe.

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Chris Oatley

Glad you liked the show, Dave. I’ve never heard Glen Beck so I can’t comment on that. But I can say that I was deliberately trying to crank up the sound of desperation in order to make my point.

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Mary Flynn

You have no idea how inspirational this podcast was to me. I have been really struggling lately with my decision to devote myself full time to my art. I am willing to give up a lot of things financially however, I don’t think my husband is. I am going to stick to it because even though I’m not making a lot of money, this year I’ve had quite a few of those little victories that Will was talking about.

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Emily Hann

Super inspiring! Thanks, guys!

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Beka Duke

Thank you so much for sharing these thoughts! For the longest time, I would create projects/characters/designs that I really cared about–but I was always too shy to actually work said projects into fruition! The excuses were many: I don’t have time, no one will like it, what if this is all a waste of effort, etc…
This past year, I finally just rolled up my sleeves and dove in. I chose a smaller project and I started cranking away at it furiously. Not receiving a lot of validation (either on the internet or in personal interactions) on the project has been discouraging–but educational at the same time. It has been a lot of work, but it is so fulfilling to think about calling this project “complete”. I know for a fact that it will never be this amazing masterpiece–but it *will* be a stepping stone that I can build upon later. Anyhoo, sorry for the ramble–but this all goes to show how encouraging this podcast was to me. Thanks again.

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Linda Lithén

Thank you for the inspiring talk, I really need to hear this.

I graduated from a college this past summer and have been feeling the rising panic and pressure from moving back home to my parents and uh, incidentally running into the highest unemployment area in the country, and the question “Am I good enough?” have been like a woodpecker, hacking away at me daily, only stopping to chuck a walnut at me whenever I see a former classmate get a freelance assignment or job somewhere.

Something that stuck with me though was where you two discussed the fear of failing. I’m a early 90s kid, I don’t know whether this is a recent change, but it made me think of my time in school. Failing in school is bad. It either makes you out to, incidentally, ‘not be good enough’, or you become seen as a burden to the school since a average on good grades is part of marketing these days. During my three years in college I only outright failed a class once, in a field I wasn’t familliar with. Skipping some details for identification issues, but by the time the results for the extra tasks given to pass the course came in, I couldn’t breathe for that second it took me to find the grade in that email and process what it said. And then I spent several minutes hyperventilating from relief that I had passed. I was safe. My whole academic journey wasn’t going to get messed up by that one mistake. That one failure.

We aren’t told to learn from failures. To dust ourself off, get up and try again. We’re told to not fail. To play it safe. To not be wrong. For me that fear of failure is there, I feel like I have something to prove and that if I don’t succeed I’ll be told to get real and get a ‘proper’ job. That fear is crippling. And I hate it. I want to, I try to, turn those sharp spikes of failure into a motivation. I work to improve, I’m participating in Noah’s Art Camp right now. But I keep secondguessing myself with “Who would want to hire me? Am I good enough to get hired by someone? Where? Who?” It seems like everyone wants you to have several years of experience, and frankly I’m a bit at a loss where I’d fit into the creative industry. That has hampered me a bit in my job searching since I… don’t know which keyhole I fit into.

Maybe I do need to look into and get to developing my personal projects, rather than chasing after the abstract idea of a illustrator or concept artist career. Do something with those characters and vague narratives that’s been kicking around in the back of my head since 2008.

A bit rambling perhaps, my apologies, it’s late here. Either way, Happy New Year to you mr. Oatley, thank you for the great podcasts!

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Crystal

Great podcast! Sometimes I think we all get so anxious about where our next job will be that we don’t actually end up making anything at all, or anything that we’re proud of. At least that’s how I feel. This podcast was a great reminder that our jobs don’t define us as artists. Thanks so much, Chris and Will!

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shawn

“What sacrifices are you willing to take.”

Love that quote.

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Kevin Allen

Chris & Will,

This podcast really resonates with me on a personal level. Despite the raised eyebrows I’ve received from some of my friends and the sacrifices I’ve had to put forth, I’m taking the leap and doing what I know is right in my heart. I’m moving out to California to surround myself with professionals, CTNX, San Diego Comic Con, etc. Funny enough, the topic on games is something I came to terms with recently. I decided to sell all of my games and consoles because I’m an addict with no self control around them lol. So, I’ve replaced gaming with Yoga, and drawing/painting. Then I spend the rest of my time on the Magic Box, Gnomon DVDs, and personal projects where I can exercise being the author, director, and illustrator of my graphic novel.

This episode has helped to reassure me that everything is falling in the right place. I no longer feel concerned with being good enough. Rather, I just want to do my best and strive pluck the emotional strings of my readers and viewers instead of seeking their admiration for my skills in art. Thanks to both of you for helping me and the others who listen in focus on what’s important for an artist.

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Tegan Clancy

This podcast makes me excited for 2014! And I totally agree, the more man hours I put in last year made a huge difference to my artistic growth and the CTN feedback is what made me stop and measure against where I was in 2012. I can’t wit to continue growing with the Oatley academy and hopefully find the funds out of nowhere to fly to CTN again :)

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Alex Paulsen

I’m so nervous as where to start. I’m practically starting from zero and I know I want to be an artists, but it just seems like everytime I make something I look at it and go “this is garbage” and just keep discouraging myself away from it. How do I get out of this?

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Cassandra Lee

Fallen behind with all the amazing posts you got on your blog of late! Love this podcast :) I’ve recently put aside my indecisiveness and settled on creating a children’s illustration portfolio and Will Terry is one of the children’s book illustrators on the web that I look up to the most! Thanx so much! :D

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Richard Bailey

WOW! what a great podcast. I’ve been working as a professional artist for twenty years and this is still so pertinent. Having worked for several animation studios with a lot of other talented artists we still find ourselves questioning our skills and abilities- It’s like we’re waiting for the day that the boss will walk past our desk, see a crap drawing and realise that we’ve been faking it all along and send us on our way.
Over the last couple of years I’ve become dissatisfied with my current job- I work with a great bunch of people and they’ve inspired me to create more personal work, which I’ve created more than I’ve ever done in the past, but it only fuels the frustration with my current role.
Having a mortgage and young kids obviously prevents me pulling up stumps and moving somewhere else to look for work, but also this personal work has created a desire to be somewhat self-sufficient and not so reliant on an employer. I know I have skills (I’ve been employed for twenty years), but I also know that I am still growing as an artist. I’m now faced with that barrier that you discuss of putting myself “out there”. It is a daunting one that I struggle with- I think it’s akin to sending your child out into the world to be judged. “Build it and they will come”, okay but hurry up because the suspense is killing me.
Thank you for fueling this fire that makes me want to make these changes.

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