Ask For The Job

My first job out of art school was a website for an engineering firm in Ohio.  I worked on contract, in-house for a summer.  A hundred people that do math all day… …and me.

In my free time I painted monsters. The engineers golfed and renovated their own homes.

There were fun-ish things about that job but, for me, it was not a dream-come-true.

Five years later I got my first job at Disney.  I worked on contract, in-house for a summer and into the fall.  A hundred people that tell stories all day… …and me.

I’ve spent the last four years here, mostly. It’s been amazing. …and none of this would have happened if I hadn’t asked for it.

The Engineer’s Advice:

On my last day at the engineering firm, I left work early because I had an interview at a local print shop. My supervisor, who had become my close friend and mentor, said this:

“My best advice: Ask for the job.”

I thought about how my request for the job was implicit. I had submitted a resume and cover letter and was about to go in for an interview. A more direct request seemed, at best, redundant and at worst, uncontrollably awkward.

He went on: “A guy came in last week to interview for the [do math all day] position and on his way out, he turned around and just asked for the job. He said he liked this place and respected us and he really wanted to work here. He was very sincere. We were impressed with that. We’re probably going to hire him.”

Not fully understanding, I took his advice and “asked for the job” at the print shop.

I did NOT get the job at the print shop.

Remember that.

My First Disney Gig:

Four years later, my friend Steve Galgas hooked me up with some freelance visual development work for a previous incarnation of DisneyToon Studios.

To date, my only paid creative work had been my graduate stipend and the occasional nickel-and-dime freelance illustration gig.  Any assignment from Disney was a step in the right direction.

I painted two characters and then the movie got shut down. The Pixar merger extinguished all direct-to-video sequels and my Disney dream came to a premature end.

(Yes. It was another controversial, direct-to-video sequel but to be fair, it would have been a pretty good, controversial, direct-to-video sequel.)

I got paid (well), thanked them profusely and let some time pass while the merger-dust settled. A couple months later I sent a follow-up email asking for more work.

I asked for the job.

The Pixar merger had become an all-studio-overhaul, so they still weren’t hiring.  But they said they loved my work and would keep me in mind for future freelance opportunities.

One year after that they called me and asked me to do visual development on Tinker Bell.

And as I already said, I’m still here and it’s a dream-come-true. You get it. So where am I going with all this?

Polite And Passive:

Remember the job at the print shop? The job I didn’t get?

Well, it wasn’t a job at a print shop. I don’t actually remember what sort of job it was. I just added the print shop detail so you would remember when I brought it up later… …which is now.

I don’t remember what the job was because, deep down inside, I didn’t care. And because I didn’t care, I did not engage. I was polite and passive.

Sure, there were probably a lot of reasons why I didn’t get the “print shop” job but my passivity certainly didn’t help.

Don’t Just Ask, ENGAGE:

Did I get the job at Disney just because I asked for it? Of course not. Although I’m sad that some people seem to think it’s that easy.

I lost my way in art school and tried for two years to become a freelance editorial illustrator.

But I eventually had to re-engage my dream of working in  animation.  I don’t have time to tell you the whole story but it involves a tremendous amount of hard work,  patience, failed solutions and wastes of time. Then came the freelance gig on the movie that got Pixarated followed by another year of radio silence then, finally, the Tink job.

Just asking for the job is not enough. We have to engage and stay engaged by taking bold action to renew and realize our dreams.

“Asking for the job” is an external manifestation of the passion we have for what we do and what we can do for the company at which we are interviewing.

The guy who impressed my supervisor at the engineering firm asked for the job because he was actively engaged and had been engaged long enough to learn that he really liked and respected the firm. He didn’t come across as phony because he was sincere and passionate.

Focus On Progress:

This isn’t just a story for students or the otherwise inexperienced.  This is also a story for the industry vets who are phoning it in because they’re bored with their jobs or the sorta-successful freelancers who dream of making art for themselves.

Whatever your dream is, it’s probably not going to come true if you just passively wait for it to arrive or if you just sit around and complain all day.

Don’t let yourself get overwhelmed with the distance or the obstacles between you and your dream. Just focus on making progress. Any kind of progress is still progress.

Engage your dream with sincerity, passion and take the next action right now.

Ask for the job.

Comment And Share:

What is the ONE NEXT ACTION you can take to engage or re-engage your dream?

Share that next action in the comments below.

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{ 62 comments… read them below or add one }

Jeff Lai

That was a beautiful/inspiring story of your past experiences.
Gives me hope!

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oats

Jeff, you’re great. You’re a strong artist and a great guy. Keep hoping and keep working hard – engage that dream!

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Sarah

So true!

In April I sent a friendly email to a past big client (the company had gone through a merger, so I wanted to make sure my contact information wasn’t lost in the midst of the overhaul of the design department). By June I heard back and they had some work for me. Not a big project, but it’s keeping our business relationship fresh.

I had recently revamped my portfolio website and used that as an excuse to get in touch – I just sent a short, polite email sharing the URL and requesting to be kept in mind for future opportunities, also complimenting the success of the products I’d worked on last year. A big update with new work is a great excuse to drop a line to old clients, and it totally worked for me.

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oats

Yeah. This is great. I watch artists give up on communication all the time just because they didn’t get a response the first time.

Art Directors, Editors etc… are really flippin’ busy and they can’t stay on top of anything that isn’t blazing with urgency.

But they usually DO want to connect with artists so we have to find ways to communicate consistently, help them and provide value (with NO strings attached) and be willing to do those things for the long haul.

If we do great work and start every business relationship with emphasis on the “relationship” (doesn’t mean “buddy”) and respect boundaries while reminding people in a steady (not annoying or awkward) way that we are here to help, doors WILL open.

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Sarah

Yeah, definitely. Asking for the job is a great way in, and I think it can be applied to even less “job application”-like freelance settings. If you loved working with a client (or would like to in the future), don’t be afraid to tell them (like the math guy), and don’t forget to keep up professional communication to keep yourself in the back of their minds!

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Jake Ekiss

My current job situation reminds me a lot of this story. I work with vintage collectible comics all day, helping to restore them for higher value. It’s the ultimate window shopper job. I SEE the end product of what I’d like to do daily, and I see the best examples of it. That said, it’s rather like being a concession worker at a theater when you want to direct. Sure, I see the product, but I’m not close to making it in my 9-5 hours.

Two years ago I pulled in an educational comics gig and managed to live off of it for a full year. It was a great job, and it allowed me to do some really special things in my own work with the free time it allowed me. Eventually though, the job petered out, the company couldn’t finance it anymore and I ended up having to switch to this gig. Here I am two years later and the itch to get back to full time freelance is killing me.

That said, I’ve just had my own run of “asking for the job” as it were. I mentioned in a comment weeks ago about a cover gig that had fallen by the wayside due to the publisher going flakey about it. As it turns out the gig didn’t die, and I did ultimately get to do the cover, which should be released sometime in late July or August. Because of the goings on at said publisher though, when I actually did finally complete that cover I did it with no contact whatsoever with the editor who ultimately approved it. I won’t go into how, but for the cover my “editor” was actually someone in the company’s marketing arm. Strange, I know. Anyway, it’s been a week or two since I completed, and all signs point to the publisher liking my work. So I contacted my new marketing buddy and had him set me up with the editor’s contact info, and put in a word that I’d be contacting him soon. I emailed and made certain the editor knew who I was, how I found him, and what my work looked like, and then very politely asked him to keep me in mind for future work.

Now that was Friday, and here we are Monday with no reply, but I know the publisher is gearing up for SDCC, so I’m not going to be bossy or overly pushy about it. I doubt I’ll get a response until after the show, and even then probably not without a soft reminder. But on my end at least, it’s forward movement, and hopefully forward movement that’s paving a path to get me out of my dead-end day job and the nickel and dime freelance work.

I know that was somewhat of a long anecdote (I ramble in non business emails, it’s a failing). TLDR version: I hear you, broham. I hear you.

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Scott Wiser

Oh man! Fingers crossed! It sounds like you take each phase of your journey and you make the most of it.

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Jake Ekiss

Thanks for the thoughts ,man. I’m definitely trying to make the most of things. It’s been a good year for my resume, but it hasn’t yet translated into much more than sporadic work. Hopefully by January I’ll have more to show in the way of paying work. It’d be nice to get back to freelancing. I miss it so.

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oats

I’ve been in this same place before, Jake. Things are all foggy in email but as soon as both parties become “real people” stuff just starts moving right along.

My advice – JUST connect with them in person at SDCC. Don’t try to do any deals (unless they initiate it). Just connect and remind them of who you are and encourage them about the show then get out of their hair. Then follow up again a couple weeks after the con.

And tweet me when you’re there! I’ll be there for the Cowboys and Aliens premiere and for the day on Sunday.

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Jake Ekiss

Sadly I won’t be at SDCC proper, at least, not unless some plans go majorly well in the next week. Though if I do, you’ll definitely get a tweet. That said, I should be able to catch up with these guys at Chicago Comic con and I plan to take just that approach. It’s easy to be the pushy guy. I’d much rather be the easy to work with guy.

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Scott Wiser

You sure threw a curve ball with the print shop thing – haha! I worked at a print shop for two years – which paid for my schooling and supported my family. But in the back of my mind, it wasn’t the dream job and I had to work hard to actually progress as an artist (and remain a productive employee and a supportive coworker). It’s a temptation to idle along, waiting for the big break – or even worse, to complain. But you’re right, focusing on progress brings internal rewards that keep us moving forward. Through that job, I was able to learn flexibility from the variety of clients, innovate on “ordinary” assignments, and I even create some cartoon characters with a growing franchise.

Now I’m beginning the dream and the lessons learned on the difficult journey are so valuable. They will be integral to future success. You’re story sounds quite similar to mine, except the print shop part. ;) And you’re further along!

Hearing stories like yours gives me continued excitement for what’s ahead of this hard work I continue putting in!

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Chris Oatley

Ha! Yeah I thought that curve ball might be a fun and engaging way to say “I can’t remember what the interview was for.”

And I did work in a print shop for two summers but it was several years before – after my senior year in high school and after my freshman year in art school.

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Adrian Johnson

Holy smokes, Chris!
You are a perpetual fount of inspiration.
Don’t ever run dry.

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Chris Oatley

Thanks, Adrian. Funny you should say that because this post is based on my own recent struggles.

I probably should have shared more about that in the post but it was long enough already.

It’s great to hear from you, BTW.

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Liesl

Ever since I started following this blog and podcast, I have felt more hope about the art I do and a greater desire to work harder. Admittedly it’s still hard, but hearing your story makes me want to continue to work.

I think one thing I can/should do to engage my dream is to become more organized. I’m always sitting around thinking “I should do some figure drawing practice” or “I really need to write” but I’ll find some excuse to do it. So why not organize myself? I’ll make clear, concrete goals of when I should draw and when I should write and what I want to have accomplished by the end of the week, whether it’s finishing a request or updating a blog or writing a comic. I think it will help me get my butt even MORE in gear, and since I’ve finally fallen in love with drawing and writing, I’m ready to take the next step towards accomplishing my dream, which is to not just work, but to concentrate on improving specific parts of my craft.

Again, thank you. You and Lora are remarkable.

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oats

Yeah. Having a plan is key.

“Artistic growth” is a moving target. We need concrete goals with accompanying action steps in order to make the process more tangible.

Clear goals and action steps build our confidence and help to eliminate fear.

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Lee Wiley

Chris, my friend, thank you for sharing that experience. I currently feel a bit stuck, but I think most of that feeling is in my head, so after reading your experience. I think I am going to not only take some more time and initiative in my work, but I’m going to become more active in my pursuits for the dream job. I have a good job, and I am surrounded by great people. But, I’m not yet working in my dream job, and I know with the right attitude and feeding off of good sources, like yourself, I’ll get there! And when I’m there, I’ll give you a big hug…or a handshake…if a hug is too awkward…

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oats

Lee, have you read “Quitter”? We talked about it a few episodes back. It’s about this very kind of thing.

Oh, and I’m definitely a hugger.

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Lee Wiley

I remember when you and Lora talked about that book. I think I’ll have to track down the audio book of it (as I am not much for sitting down and reading) thanks, you big hugger you!

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Melony C.

One of the last jobs I got a few years back, it was a graveyard shift to help pay for bills while I went to college, I asked the lady at the end of the interview “What do I need to do to get this job?” She was so shocked & so impressed that I would have the balls to ask for it, politely but with genuine want to work there, she hired me on the spot. I know it seems like an awfully bold thing to do, but towards the end of any interviews from then on I have always politely asked for it. “What can I do to get this job with you? I WANT to work with you.” Yes the job wasn’t my dream job or even the best, but it was one that worked well with my college schedule and paid well too.

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Sam Kirkman

Hey Melony, I wanna be you when I grow up! :) Perfect example of what Chris was talking about.

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oats

It’s amazing how passivity can read as indifference. Like I said, nobody like to be steamrolled but we want to see people who take initiative. …who are engaged!

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Melony C.

OH and you guys had mentioned in the last podcast that you needed some ideas for some of your podcasts. Well I’d like to hear your input on contracts- some of the legalize yeses & nos & what to look for in some of those shady deals, Chris mentioned some of the practical color theory he had learned from that wonderful professor (would love to hear more about that) and also on good website designs.

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oats

Melony – contracts for what kinds of jobs, specifically?

Color theory is a great idea. I’ve started working with my apprentices in this area.

We will definitely be addressing websites in the future as well. We have a LOT of great, surprising content already planned for that.

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Melony C.

Chris- Well that’s just it, what kind of contracts are there? I’ve seen a few for things like spot illustration work and other types of temp freelance work I’ve done, but I haven’t seen any others.

What other types of contracts are there (sorry I just don’t know of others)? Might want to go over some of the basics on just a few of those & some of the pitfalls we might be able to avoid. I’ve seen some others in sample form in the Graphic Artists Guild Handbook of Pricing & Ethical Guidelines (which btw is a book you need to recommend to other artists), but no others in real-life.

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Sam Kirkman

Chris I love to hear these kind of stories. From all that I’ve heard through associated podcasts and posts I’ve read, I realize everyone’s path is different. We think to ourselves, “If I just do what he did,” But that’s the wrong way to respond. The people we meet, the experiences we have, and perhaps more importantly, the mistakes we make will shape our journey, not our parroting another’s path. Your sharing helps us be more aware & sensitive to opportunities, and most assuredly encourages us to push on. Thank you my friend! Oh! And a progress report too share & encourage the group. I had a book signing in Santa Cruz over the week end. Met two wonderful artists Toni Foti and Alexis Fajardo, soaked in the experiences of Joe Ferarra The owner of Atlantis, a spirit of Comics Eisner winner (he’s been in the business since the 70s.) In one word, PRICELESS experience. one step closer. Next, finishing up #3 and on to APE! Would LOVE to see you there. All of you guys!!! We’re making connections, even now, all of us. LETS DO something with em! :o) Onward Ho!!!!

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oats

Sam, this is such great news. Can’t wait to hear more.

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Sam Kirkman

Me too! :)

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Lucas

I want to say thank you guys so much for your posts!! I’m working on my portfolio to bring with me at SIGGRAPH, and I cannot express enough gratitude for your podcasts, they are amazing! Truly inspiring!

Lucas

ps:
If it’s not a problem, I would like to make one question: is it better to show, as a storyboard artist portfolio, a few small sets of storyboards or a big one?

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oats

Lucas, story portfolios are sometimes the most fun because they are the most different. I would definitely put everything that you have that is good into the portfolio. Some of the story portfolios I’ve seen are hundreds of pages long.

Good luck at SIGGRAPH!

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Lucas

Wow, thanks for the answer! Never thought that a story artist portfolio could be that long (it does make sense).

Thanks again, Oats!

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Lora

And yet again, another great conversation springs up. I’m a day late and there’s nothing left to say, lol! I’ve definitely tried to “Ask for the Job!” Once, I fought for it too. I really made my case. (I’d worked with the guys before, lol.)

In the end, it didn’t pan out but it wasn’t for a lack of passion or a lack of trying. In retrospect, it was for my best. If I’d said yes, I couldn’t have said yes to the “To Appomattox” job offer when it came in. And that’s definitely the dream job! Not the one I was originally pursuing.

Life can be frustrating and disappointing in the moments, but with distance and perspective, often we see that some of what we wanted, we didn’t really want after all. I’m glad I didn’t get that job now!

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Sarah

I had a similar dilemma between that job I was going for and the fellowship offer. I completely know what you’re talking about! I like to think things work out the way they’re supposed to, and that’s definitely the case for you. : )

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Michael Mayne

Recently put in for a freelance job in which I’d be producing all the storytelling visuals for an iPhone game. The compensation seems fair and the work itself sounds really satisfying.

Haven’t clinched the position yet, but just last night I sent an email to the potential client to inquire as to the status of the job and to reaffirm my eagerness to work on it. Got a response that essentially I’m still in the running. Not a ‘yes,’ but definitely not a ‘no’ either.

I’ve actually been doing that a bit more lately. It’s hit or miss, as sometimes I simply can’t go lower on the price and so the clients are opting to go somewhere else for the work anyway, but I’ve picked up a few worthwhile jobs simply by “asking for it.”

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oats

Oh yeah! That’s exciting, Michael!

Let us know what happens.

And regarding price – that’s the first thing that artists seem to cut. I’m not a fan of that. It dilutes the market but more importantly, the artists are generally worth WAY MORE than they settle for.

Good on you for holding your ground on the pricing.

There’s a point at which you HAVE to let the deal walk because it’s not really a deal – it’s indentured servitude.

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Frank M Hansen

Very well said. Great post Chris. Thank you for sharing once again.

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Nick Lombardo

This is great stuff man. Thanks for this post.

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syd

Holy buckets, great article! Thank you for putting together such a useful collection of information for artists and for helping me stay inspired.

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ChrisOatley

You are so welcome! It’s the most fulfilling thing in my professional life!

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Tegan Clancy

Chris great advice! I have also asked for a job at the start of this year! Freelancing around a couple of the companies, I was offered full-time graphic design & illustration roles at a range of companies. But the one freelance place I was being creatively stimulated at, with a wide range of work and awesome clients just kept plotting along with the same small hours.
So I arranged a meeting with them, talked about how great the experience has been working for them, told them about the other job offers and asked for a full-time job. It was hard as I really didn’t want to loose their work.
And as a result, they were excited that I wanted to stay with them, that they gave me the best contract, working 4 days with the same wage as one of those 5 day contracts, allowing me one day a week I can work solid on my portfolio. So glad I asked!
Hope this helps anyone else in a similar position!

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Miguel Lozano

Something positive to put into practice. I fall into the vet category and are trying to get hired. Thanks for the tip

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Chris Oatley

Good luck, Miguel!

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Jez Tuya

Thanks for the inspiration, Chris! Goes to show that if you want something badly, you work hard to obtain it, regardless of the limitations that are in the way

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Alex Rowson

Very inspiring Chris. Gives me hope of getting somewhere from a blank page.

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Alex Hughes

Hi I’m a high school senior and I’ve always dreamed of working for Disney. I want to go to the Art Institutes. I was wondering if it was possible for a character/setting/story visual development artist for Disney to live away from the studio and send their work to the directors?

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Chris Oatley

I’m sure if you’re good enough, people will make exceptions to any rule. But generally, the big studios want people to be in-house – at least when they’re starting out. But you’d have to talk to HR about that. That’s a little out of my realm of expertise. Thanks, Alex!

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Lianna

These articles always inspire me, but this one takes the cake.

My next move is to take some real action towards my career, and send my work out to people. Thanks for writing this; I’ve never been more motivated to get things started since I finished college!

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Cheong Yi Wen

I’m gonna finish a script of my comic in 3 months. *fumes with spirits*

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M. Ann Pritchard

Thank you so much, Chris! You give me such inspiration in following my dream. I feel that I am diffinately not giving up on annimating my cartoons!

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Sydnei

Thanks Chris for sharing your experience!

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Andrew

I like the “Ask for the job” advice,… kinda makes you wanna roll your sleeves up and go for it.

Any suggestions on how to get past the phone answering road blocks in order to speak to the person you want to meet with?

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jose

How I Can Have A Little Conversation With You Chris But In Private(Inbox Or Some Like That , I Just Got A Couple Questions, I Got 16 Years Old and I WanT A Opinion From A Professional, Im Looking For How Make My Future And What Oppotunities i Got With The Art That I Do ! Thanks If You Take Time To Read This Comment and Answer It !

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Ashish Utane

Disney is my drem from my childhod
doing job in it also dream of mine
but i don’t know how? ………disney is inspiring me again and again

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barry

Awesome post Oats!

I got my current gig @ WB thanks to a friendly reminder that – even though I knew a specific job had been filled – I was around & available for any other work they had. Turns out they didn’t like the guy they initially hired instead of me & brought me in as a replacement.

And you can be sure I’ll be asking for more work once my contract runs out (in one or two more weeks…yikes! Next paycheck goes straight into savings).

Cheers man!

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Sam

heheh you got me with the ‘not for starter artists, for pros who are phoning it in’ I’m trying to change that now. I *want* to work for the big players, the creative giants… the Disneys of game dev. And sometimes you not only have to be sincere about your passion for a company, but have the belief that that genuine passion and skill put you in good stead too. Asking for the job certainly can’t diminish your chances! I have inevitably been hired because fantasy and creation and ideation are my passions, and I’ve also gone on to hire other artists who show that same kind of enthusiasm for what they do, and for what the company does. Especially for what the company does.

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Damon

Hey Chris

I’ve been meaning to comment on this post for a while, it’s such an Inspiring story and thanks for sharing. In regards to the question at the end of your post “To engage and next action” This is ultimately where I feel very lost and isolated.

I feel incredibly engaged with my peers and respected mentors through social media and email, but for me this is not enough! I really want to engage in person and unfortunately those are the hardest doors to open living in the UK! I feel an intense pull to be around other artists of my craft but I’m too afraid to ask for jobs or more engaging relationships. I sincerely want to break free from the UK to follow my dream but feel so limited because of my location. Why would America invest in me, when there are so many talented nationals within arms reach?

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Michelle

This was a very empowering message for an art student like me. Becoming less passive about what I want seems like the exact thing I need to work on.

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Carrie

Thanks for writing this. I’m working on my demo reel right now and life has been pretty hard lately. This has really helped me feel even more determined to keep trying. :)

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Sangson

Guess my next step is still going to be…to make a friggin portfolio to show anyone.

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Kat

This read was perfect timing and the shove I needed-thank you. In my past I was a designer, and a damn good one! My clients loved me, I loved them and I loved the work. But then I needed to earn more $$ and get more experience. I ended up in a tech job, not creative at all and, yeah, surrounded by tech dudes. But with age and time comes wisdom, the acceptance to fail and a “What the hell” attitude. So I decided what the hell, who cares about rejection, I want to be a creative account exec. The job doesn’t exist but this person (whom I admire, respect and would love to be part of his creative vibe) needs one, and he knows it. So I facilitated a meeting with him. I listened and learned. Then I waited a few weeks, set up a meeting again and he never accepted it. I was distraught, so (in a moment of utter insanity) I went to his office, saw his light on and just walked in. He agreed to meet again (and he seemed happy about it!) and he apologized for not responding . Now I am prepping to “ask for the job”. Great advice.

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Chris Oatley

So great to hear, Kat! GO FOR IT!

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Lauren

Hi Chris I just discovered you and your website today due to the fact that I am trying to find out as much as I can about this industry as possible as I plan on studying Animation, Concept Art and various other “artistic” professions at University in my first year. I live in Perth, Australia so to find people in this industry is very difficult where I live and also find a job. I have been going around to the different universities and asking different people what it takes to get where I want to be and where people who have taken the same path as me have ended up. One man gave me some very valuable advice. Go hard or go home. This is to say that due to the lack of career opportunities where I live I am bound to end up trying to find a career in a different state, and more likely a different country, and to do that, you need to be the best at what you do, but also do it with passion. I definitely dream of one day working at Pixar, I have always loved art, movies and animation. I have taken the initiative recently to contact people in Perth and find out all I can so I can have the best possible insight into what I plan on doing and also an open-mind. To do this I have contacted a man who works at one of the universities here in Perth who works for Pixar and also a man who has set up his own animation business in Perth and he has more than happily agreed to see me and show me his work and how he got to where he is now. So although I am not exactly asking for a specific job at the moment, I am asking for a career by broadening my contacts and my knowledge about this wonderful career. I’m really glad I was able to find you and your guidance, I have already listened to a few of your podcasts and find them very helpful. Thank you for taking the time and effort to set this up. p.s sorry this is so long! xx Lauren

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