Interview With Pascal Campion (Part 1) :: ArtCast #74

"Tuesday Evening" by Pascal Campion

What does a successful artist look like?

Many of us define success by the size of our fan bases, the popularity of our best clients and the amount of money in our bank accounts.

But very few of us would agree that these are the most valuable aspects of life as a professional artist.

Nothing is valuable without meaning.

…which is why friendship, generosity, self-sacrifice and family are, to most of us, our definition of true success.

But is it even possible to afford both financial and familial success as a professional artist?

Is the decision to pursue your creative dream a deal with the devil that will leave you tired, broke and lonely forever?

Pascal Campion – one of the most popular independent artists working today – is living proof that success in all areas of a creative life is possible.

In the following interview, you’ll see the contagious passion, the persistent positivity and the disciplined focus that have enabled Pascal to experience success on his own terms…

“Pascal, You Aren’t Good Enough To Succeed…”

"Downhill" by Pascal Campion

Pascal Campion’s sixth grade art teacher told him he wasn’t good enough to succeed as a professional artist.

The harsh comment kinda rocked Pascal’s world but he certainly didn’t give up.

The illustration curriculum at his art college was unusual.

Instead of technical training, Pascal’s teachers were more interested in pure storytelling. The medium, style and level of draftsmanship with which the story was presented were not priorities.

“You learn you’re so limited in everything you do. …and not knowing anything helps you go over and break those limits to explore. …which is something I still do.”

-Pascal Campion

After college, Pascal became a storyboard artist in Portland, Oregon. He eventually found his way to LeapFrog in San Francisco.

A few years later, he abandoned full-time, in-house work to become a freelancer and independent artist. …a decision which was driven by his desire to spend more time with his family.

While Pascal’s freelance client list now includes high-profile companies like Disney, Nick Junior and DreamWorks, his “Sketch Of The Day” personal work has become a phenomenon unto itself…

Listen To The Interview:

[ download the mp3 ]

Episode Highlights:

  • How Pascal became a professional artist.
  • How curiosity and creative risks have shaped his career.
  • Balancing personal relationships with your art career.
  • Why software doesn’t matter.
  • How a weird art education influenced his unique personal style.
  • How Pascal approaches each personal piece as a “controlled accident.”
Like this interview? Please consider sharing it on Twitter by clicking here.

Awesome Links:

"Along The Way" by Pascal Campion

Pascal’s Sketch Of The Day

Pascal’s Portfolio

Follow Pascal On Twitter

Follow Pascal On Facebook

Follow Pascal On Tumblr

Follow Pascal On deviantART

Pascal’s First Ever Solo Exhibit: Pascal will be at Center Stage Gallery in Burbank, CA on August 2nd for a Storytelling Workshop, Kickstarter Party and Reception!

Will Terry: Are You Good Enough?

The Iron Giant

The School Of The Museum Of Fine Arts

Science Court

Invisible Ink

The Magic Box: Digital Painting Tutorials

Are You Inspired?

Pascal has a way of inspiring his fellow artists by simply being himself.

Have the insights that Pascal shared changed your perception of yourself as an artist in any way?

Please post your thoughts in the comments!

Click here to listen to Part 2 of my interview with Pascal Campion.

Subscribe & Get My FREE Digital Painting Kit!

[ I will never spam you or share your information ]

{ 61 comments… read them below or add one }

Britny Arnett

Oh. My. GOSH. This. This right here. Is the secret to life. I have two things that I took away from this. 1. Caring less opens avenues of creativity. 2. Making sure you have time for family and making work time count (no matter how long you have) is not really a matter of scheduling but a matter of attitude.

My recent “failures” with art have opened me up to the idea of caring less. And by caring less, I don’t mean not caring at all, but I mean like treating it like a job. Do your best and learn. That’s really all a job is besides a paycheck. Wow. Eye opening.

GREAT podcast, Chris! Looking forward to the rest of it!

Reply

Chris Oatley

Thank you for that insight, Britny.

You’re absolutely right.

Interesting how what you’re saying about “Do you your best and learn” also applies to the “greatness” concept I addressed in the Q&A.

Thanks again for commenting!

Reply

Lea Hernandez

I’m with Britny re: the caring less. It’s like a zen letting go of everything that came before so all you have to think about is what’s right in front of you.

Reply

Chris Oatley

That’s right on, Lea. I need to keep that in mind every time I release a new podcast… ;)

Reply

Juliette

One of the things that Pascal said that resonated with me was “Harness the ‘I don’t care’ attitude into a professional tool.” That is one of the things that I have struggled with most of my artistic life. He mentioned that when he would try to create differently his work would stiffen up and that was like an “aha” moment for me. I need to just use the story to guide me and just be me.

Secondly, I have been batting around in my head as to what it is I want to “do with my life”- do I want to be a Concept artist? Storyboard? And as he was speaking about his family and being a freelance artist, I realized that I was the most happiest when I was freelancing, because it allowed me to be with my son.

Can’t wait for the second part!

Reply

Chris Oatley

Yes, Juliette! That resonated with me too.

Personally, I would also LOVE to see you try some animation. I think it would look amazing and I bet you’d land some great clients with your distinctive personal style.

Reply

Juliette

I have considered animation. I am familiar with Flash and thought about bringing in some characters into that. Hmmmm…personal project maybe?

Reply

Chris Oatley

Boom!

Reply

Henrike

Great first part! Loved to hear about Pascals journey and how he got to the point of letting go and not worry as much about the outcome and how that positively influenced his art.

Looking forward to part 2! :)

Reply

Chris Oatley

Me too, Henrike! Thanks!

Reply

David

Seems I am on the right path indeed, since I stopped to care too much about what I “do not have yet”, things tend to be easier. It is easier to focus. And doing what I can do best “now” is more important than what I could do in the future, as long as I just do what I do.

I guess maybe one should try to discover the answer to the question: “What does it (whatever one can do, illustration, music, writing, etc.) mean to me?”

And from the answer we could see if our current mindset and goals make sense according to what our activities mean to us.

Reply

Chris Oatley

I think that’s an extremely helpful question to ask, David. Thank you for your insight!

Reply

Aumes

Wow! I am inspired!
I really enjoyed the interview. The way it flows… it makes the dream tangible again. Pascal´s artistic career is amazing.
Yet, i can´t stop thinking about it as “The balance between two parallels”, the social reality and the abstraction of creativity. Art can be addictive. Turning off the switch vs feeding the curiosity of discovery… it’s a dilema. One can get so involved/immersed that, when he puts his feet back on the “social reality” ground, “reality time” went next door… ( I picture an astronaut returning from a long trip, and none practically remembers him).
I agree that it is important to be around the right person/people/community.
Being able to balance the social reality and the abstraction of creativity is like the mastery of two very distinct universes, and a way of life, for the creative person.
Does it make sense?
I had a great time listening to the episode.
Thank you for this.

Reply

Chris Oatley

Does it make sense? You’re explaining my life, Aumes! :)

Pascal and I talk about this struggle in much greater depth in part 2…

I’m looking forward to hearing your thoughts!

Reply

Ânia

This is one of the best podcasts I’ve heard so far. Maybe because it resonated with me in a way I didn’t even know it was possible :P I REALLY needed to hear this at this point of my career, thank you Chris for keep bringing us all this awesomeness.
The thing about less work hours don’t necessarily mean less productive time, and making time for yourself and family/friends… Oh my that has been quite the struggle lately. And hearing it from people such as you and Pascal… It MEANS A LOT!

A few weeks ago I did this illustration for a low budget client and thought “Oh well, low budget, so let’s just have some fun and whatever.” Turned out a LOT better (at least it was easier and more fun) than the other work I recently finished, where I was even having nightmares and blaming myself for not being good enough!

We really are all the same, uh? Got to learn how to let it gooo, LET IT GOOOOoOoooOOO (ok back to work now)

Reply

Chris Oatley

Hahaha. So true, Ânia. It’s amazing how much of this is only in our heads…

Reply

Matt

What an exclusive! Loved the hor d’oeurvres in part 1, but looking forward to the entre in part 2.
When I heard the Q&A question I was like, ‘I don’t envy Chris right now’ lol. Thankfully he’s been tactfully helping to reset people’s priorities for years, so he knocked it out of the park, and helped me too with his response while he was at it

Reply

Chris Oatley

Hahaha. Thanks, Matt. I was REALLY nervous about releasing that segment because I didn’t want to minimize this struggle in any way.

The one thing I wish I had said is that, really, art that creates meaningful connections between people is, to me, true greatness.

Thanks again for the encouraging words. I was trying to be brave but your comment *really* helps!

Reply

Tegan Clancy

I met Pascal at CTN when purchasing a print for my then expecting sister, a very inspiration guy and so generous with his time. I love spending the first 30minutes of my work day going through my blog feed and his “sketch of the day” always add a punch of colour, with so much heart and story. Thanks for the inspiration guys and look forward to part 2!

Reply

Chris Oatley

Thanks, Tegan! Oh yeah. Hang time with Pascal is the BEST.

Reply

kammi

I’m not crazy about animation and I think Pascal is LOVELY! I can see through the Podcast why he’s so successful; he’s incredibly charming, passionate and easy-going. I think that a lot of aspiring artists forget about that relationships aspect; they think that sitting in a room by themselves in front of a computer will make them great, but a lot of great people always recall these connections and opportunities, like a series of points that all came together at some point. It doesn’t have to be the “I’m the best in class” attitude; in fact, that can be a hindrance because it can prevent you from trying a lot of different things which can become incredibly interesting and make you unique as an artist. It really is more of a journey, and a lot of people drop out along the way (within two years I”m already seeing a 70 percent turnover of my class/schools). I do agree that compared to where I’m from the study in the US is VERY academic for art, but I’ve appreciated that coming from schooling that was less so (I remember art being fun in high school) because it’s been a balance now for me to have been introduced to both. I think “why am I sweating and stressing about drawing 300 heads?” Haha.
Pascal seems like the guy who just sees the cliff and says “oh well” and takes the leap, and I love that! There should be more people like him (and you too, Chris), in this world! My dad used to say “follow what you love and the money will come”, but he also used to say “if you decide to become a peanut seller, I want you to become the BEST peanut seller you can be” (be your best). It’s about the journey. Thanks so much for this Chris and Pascal!

Reply

Chris Oatley

Glad you liked the show, kammi!

Reply

Nicolas Rix

Love love love that you got Pascal on here. I remember building up the courage to asking him about his color choices and how he got there. I had to say I was expecting this grand insight, but he really just winged it and I get that same answer from so many artists. It was nice and refreshing to hear his insights about life as Dad, Husband and freelancer.

But overall I have to say that this is something I am struggling with right now in my life. I’m trying to make the overlap to freelancer illustrator and quit my day job as a web designer. So I’m grinding away every night to make as much progress as I, while my fiancé sees my dedication to my craft, she also feels the cold bed sheets next to her most nights. It hasn’t become a problem yet but I know that it can if I don’t find a balanced way of doing this.

I must, must, must! Relax more and stop thinking I’m in this race to success or I will miss all the important moments in life. Working hard and loving the work you’re doing is one thing but not seeing your friends or family along the way is a pretty sad existence. I’m looking forward to part 2 :)

Reply

Chris Oatley

That, my friend, is the struggle. To everything, there is a season. …but dang, some seasons sure drag on.

Reply

Travis Bond

I really enjoyed hearing how Pascal’s art education wasn’t what one thinks of when you typically envision art school. I also thought it was great how he was honest about the mentality of the students who came in looking for one thing, and found that what they were going to receive was even better.

Too often, we get caught in the technique trap thinking if we can just master a specific look or style, we’ll be good to go. But when you look at Pascal’s career, it was his ability to think and narrate and reflect on his internal thoughts that allowed him to succeed.

I’ve really enjoyed this podcast, and am looking forward to the release of Part 2!

Reply

Chris Oatley

“Too often, we get caught in the technique trap thinking if we can just master a specific look or style, we’ll be good to go. But when you look at Pascal’s career, it was his ability to think and narrate and reflect on his internal thoughts that allowed him to succeed.”

This.

Reply

Scott Wiser

Yes!!! Travis, you hit that one on the head!

Reply

Michael Grant

The thing that really struck me was when he said he was trying to figure out how to take this I don’t care attitude and harness it into a professional tool! Thats something I constantly struggle with. Giving myself permission to not treat this painting like my life depends on it.

Reply

Chris Oatley

Haha. Right on, Michael!

Reply

Scott Wiser

I almost screamed when I saw the title of this episode! I purchase Pascal’s book Sunny Side at CTNX and that was a life changing experience. I read it over and over to try to figure out how he worked and I’m using what I learned as I illustrate my book. I’m not working quite as fast: more like 2-4 hours than 1-2, but I’ve been sketching out some of my more dynamic surprising, emotional pieces yet!

Of course, I’ve also been using Magic Box and Painting drama techniques, couldn’t have done it without those, but I really think the attitudes and approaches Pascal uses are golden for some people, definitely for me because I just want to tell great stories and progress in my visuals as a secondary goal.

As for the work life balance, I’ve been realizing the past few days that I’m not quite there, so his thoughts were definitely timely in that arena! Thanks so much and I can’t wait for the next episode!

Reply

Chris Oatley

Thanks, Scott! I’m happy to hear that you found the show so inspiring!

Reply

Raluca

Oh man I have been “stalking” Pascal’s work for ages and now actually hearing him talk about his experience is so enlightening! Can’t wait for part II !!!! I love these podcast…and this website!!!!!!!!

Reply

Chris Oatley

Thank you, Raluca!

Reply

Ben Yockel

I love the part where you talked about worrying about the big ideas first. I’ve been struggling lately with trying to get every idea and thought taken care of in a single day (and losing sleep over it). I think I’ll try a little slower of a process the rest of this week.
Thanks for the insight!

Reply

Chris Oatley

Let us know how it works out, Ben!

Reply

Mandy Milliron

Chris, you really know how to time releasing your podcasts.

It was awesome listening Pascal and how he got to where he is now.

Though, for someone like me with hardly any self-esteem, I am still working on getting over my own little demons to get where I get to the point of using the “I don’t care” mentality.

I getting there with illustration as I found after taking a slight break from big stuff and been doing little illustrations. My craft has actually improved a little to my shock when I just did a quick sketch of a character I am about to be writing about to get an better idea of what she looks like… But need to work on it with my writing.

Reply

Chris Oatley

Good luck with your story, Mandy!

Glad you found the interview helpful!

Reply

Mandy Milliron

Thanks. Just got to get my work load manageable to where instead of constantly sprinting on passion and having to take a break before repeating, it a constant jog. Still figuring out how to control the ideas and keep my month from cashing creative checks I can’t make, but I am making progress and just got to reach those first base camps to really start seeing the fruit of my labor.

Reply

Pingolito (Ruben Lara)

Wow, i have been following Pascal since a couple of years ago when i came to his work at SDCC, i found it inspiring because of the stories you can imagine through his images, and its awesome to hear about the human being behind the art, life experiences are the best way to learn your way through life, most of the times you have to just trust in your own skills and apply them to the actual situation, you might succeed or not but you end up learning and evolving as a person and in this case as an artist, looking forward to that part II of the interview! Thanks for sharing!

Reply

Chris Oatley

Very true, Pingolito!

Reply

Philip

Pascal is proof that things are only impossible until someone goes out and does it. Back when I was a Flash Animator, people kept telling me that I shouldn’t waste my time illustrating in Flash, because “it’s not designed for that”. Fast forward years later…

Reply

Chris Oatley

Haha! That’s just great… Thanks, Philip!

Reply

Jonathan Logan Clark

Great episode! I have been a fan of this podcast and Pascal Campion for some time now… and the the two together is great! Looking forward to the next episode!

Reply

Taylor S Smith

Chris and Pascal, thank you so much for doing this and sharing with the world! This interview, the artcasts, they are all shots of hope and encouragement to our hearts! :)

My wife and I are huge fans of Pascal’s work and love looking at his “Sketch of the Day” blog, together. I’m smiling just thinking about it! She bought and framed one of his prints several years ago for my birthday and I told her, if you ever want to surprise me again in a huge way, you know how to do it! :)

Thanks again, guys. :)

Reply

Rebecca Weis

Oh my gosh Pascal Campion! I recognized his name as soon as I read your e-mail about your latest podcast guest. I came across his artwork on Tumblr when going through a person’s tumblr blog and that led me to his Deviant art page. I love how simplistic but full of life and emotion his art is. It was interesting to hear how he got started with art and how he grew his art career. Thank you Chris for this episode, I look forward to the next one! :)

Reply

Elly Medeiros

Aw man! Chris!! It’s like your podcasts speak riight into my soul!! Every time I lose sight of what’s important, your podcasts kick me right back into shape! Nothing else to say, just thank you thank you thank you! Thanks to Pascal as well! Very eye opening!

Reply

Chris Perry

His easy going approach about creating art lifts the burden of feeling you have to create a certain, pre-conceived way. I have always loved his work and how he focuses on his family. The thing I seem to keep coming up is to work less but be more productive in the process. I am going to put a block on my computer so I will be sure to spend more time in my evenings with my family.

Reply

Erik Johnson

I had discovered Pascal’s work around the start of the year. His themes of family and relationships inspired me to dust off a piece I had previously abandoned. The influence from his color choices is fairly evident.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-L7EQ4qrlDss/U3p9lKQc01I/AAAAAAAADqA/sViIeQR4XPU/s1600/Party6.png

One thing I can identify with is his conflict between work and relationship. When I entered art school I had it in my head that work was all the mattered and that you had to commit yourself to that and be willing to sacrifice friendships in order to reach the goal. Now I’m out of school, adrift in the wider world and could probably only name five people from my graduating class and recognize just how important it is to have those human connection for support as well as inspiration.

Reply

Collin J Cullin

This is amazing. I don’t care who you are… as an artist… everyone has struggled with and/or forced a look or a style with their work. This art cast resonates. More so than any other so far. Pascal has helped convince me to do what I do. not to do what seven of my favorite artists do. He’s reassured me that someone, somewhere, will want my art because it is what I do and looks how I want it to look.

Thank you for bringing this to us Chris. Each show is better than the next.

Reply

Seth Greenwald

Wow. What a breath of fresh air. All the artists you interview are resonant, but something about Pascal was especially so. His drawing the parallel between wanting to draw better and wanting to cook better was particularly helpful. Each are good things, but not the ultimate thing. Telling the story is the ultimate thing. His acceptance of his current limitations and embracing each day for what it is is a gigantic encouragement to do the same. His embracing of controlled and intentional ‘happy accidents’ is an interesting concept as well, worthy of meditation. Everything on purpose, even accidents? hmmm….

Also, something you said is important for me to hear, as often as I can. As a habitual ‘Gap Closer’, I must remember that not knowing the answer isn’t a bad thing, but a valuable asset. To embrace the unknown as a source of exploration and delight, not as a void to be filled. I am wrestling with this concept, and I have to say it is far more freeing than I knew. I don’t have to fill that internal silence with my ‘vast insight’. It’s sophomoric. It feels like I have been subjecting myself to a self imposed intellectual claustrophobia instead of exploring the landscape of the ‘what if?’. Thank you for reminding me of that once again. Everything on purpose, even the unknown. Want to go exploring?

Reply

Bethany

Great podcast, Chris! You and Pascal covered so many good topics! The one that stuck out to me was the idea of allowing your limitations to have a positive influence on your art. It’s so easy to see your short comings as road blocks to your goals. But, while you need to keep honing your skills, learning to work with your limitations can help you come up with some unique and unexpected solutions.

Really looking forward to part 2!

Reply

Jing

Thanks again, Chris – your podcasts are exactly what I need to keep myself motivated as an artist! Pascal’s story was really intriguing to listen to – however, what really caught my attention was Jessie’s question at the end. It really strongly resonated with me – as you said, Jessie is certainly not alone! I feel like I’m at the same point in my life. Actually, listening to Will’s interview and his speech to illustrators was kind of a like a bucket of water to the face for me. I’ve been constantly distracted – or rather, purposely distracting myself from my work because of my fear and my dissatisfaction with my work. I still am right now – but I’ve acknowledged it and I’m trying to push myself forward and block out any negativity I feel about my accomplishments (while being mindful that I’m still very much in need of improvement). I feel it’s kind of like the first time I went on a roller coaster for overcoming that fear – I just needed to push myself to go for a ride, and I had a blast. When I finally kick myself into drawing again, the time flies by as I struggle, erase, redraw and start over, but instead of thinking “Wow, I’m terrible” I focus on what went wrong the last time – what needs to change this time? Pure optimism does wonders for the heart and mind, I’ve realized.

I’ve got a follow up question for you, though – what do you do to find that story within you? I feel like I have no idea what I really want in my heart. At the moment I’m trudging along, learning technique and fundamentals so that once I have that down, I’ll know where I want to go. How did you know what you wanted to do, Chris?

And again, thank you so much. Every post you make is a welcome nudge forward for me.

Reply

Emily Hann

Woooooow, I have been a huge fan of Pascal Campion since I was in college – he’s a huge inspiration and influence on me. I had the privelege of talking to him a bit at CTN and he’s a super friendly, helpful person. His nice-ness is even evident on his deviantart page, where he graciously answers and thanks almost every comment on his work.

I loved the bit at the beginning when the teacher told Pascal he wasn’t “good enough”! I’m sure almost everyone encounters a nay-sayer at least once in their journey (also it’s just hilarious that happened to an artist of his calibre). You can make the choice of letting the nay-sayer be right, or you yourself making that call that you can become “good enough”. My own mom told me not to go into animation and art when I was a teenager because there were “no jobs in that”. Not to be snide to my mom, but she was let go from her government job and I’ve been employed full time in animation since the week after I graduated (five years ago). I knew if I worked hard enough, set the standard and followed my instincts I would be GOOD ENOUGH!

Ok personal diatribe over. Cannot wait for the next episode!

Reply

Hanna Sandvig

So great! I’ve been following Pascal’s blog for a couple years now and his work has been such an inspiration to me. As a mom to kids a similar age to his, I love how he draws his family, you can see his heart in them.
He’s really encouraged me to try and draw the things that matter to me, not what I think I should have in my portfolio. I did quite a bit of family sketches for a while, I really need to get back to that.

Reply

Pat Marconett

I think something something really important that Pascal brought up, is to let your experience & unique voice shine through in your work. instead of just trying to be a copy of other successful artists.

Reply

Marta

I used to think I loved art, animation and drawing because I wanted to scape reality. Lately I’ve realized that’s actually the other way around. Art is the must powerful tool I know to enjoy life, to look at the world and all it’s meaningful moments and try to bottle them up so they can last forever. Being an artist is not the goal, it’s the way.

Thank you Pascal and Chris for your inspiration!

Reply

Manny Tamarez

The way I’ve been doing things lately is I try and put at least ten hours a week on getting drawing or writing done. Then on weekends try and spend it with my friends and family and run errands.

I feel like sometimes I don’t get enough done but I think I just set a really high bar for myself.
This interview spoke to me because I don’t want to give up too much of my time with my friends and family but I want to get stuff done artistically. I think the way I am doing it now works just fine.

Thanks for the inspiring and eye opening interview Chris and Pascal!

Reply

Tue Søborg Volder

I really think that you gave a good answer to the Q&A question, Chris.
The joy of just creating and being in the creative process should be first and foremost, i think. That joyment in turn will manifest itself in a feeling of looseness and playfulness. And that’s when you start to let go and grow freely. If you do this regularly i don’t think you can avoid to find your style, and when you do, you become less concerned with how things are “supposed” to look. And voilá! One confident artist :)

I’m curious to know if the listener who asked the question benefited from your answer. I really hope so, because it’s a terrible feeling to deal with. I guess most of have felt it :)

Reply

Jasmine Rossetto

Hi Chris/Pascal!

I’m so looking forward to the next one! Chris Oatley you really do a great podcast – especially great for long drives to work in heavy traffic. I always find what any Artist considers Work/Life Balance is very interesting… And in saying that it doesn’t just apply to artists. I draw, and have started doing animation classes and I’m working on my skills with short courses and classes but in the mean time I’m working administration and sometimes I get carried away with that and work a lot, I actually really enjoy that too… Sorry I’m rambling now, so until part 2 is out, I’ll re-listen to this one…

Jasmine
PS. you may have something in the works at the moment, but do you think you can do an interview with Victoria Ying and Mike Yamada? I follow their blog and I’ve been lucky to do one of their workshops, and I guess I’m saying I can’t get enough… Ok thank you and again great podcast!

Reply

Chris Oatley

So glad you liked the show, Jasmine! Oh yeah. I love Mike & Vicky. I’m looking forward to doing a podcast with them some time in the near future.

Reply

Dan Trauten

Great interview – what really struck me was the first question asked after this first part of the conversation. The paralyzing fear. I’ve been going through this in a bad way lately – even with approaching deadlines – and being reminded that I’m doing this because I am curious, I am happiest when creating and especially when connecting with other people. Viewing the whole mountain can be very overwhelming indeed, but when you chip away at it piece by piece you’ll find how enjoyable the process can be. Also, letting go of a lot of expectations of the outcome and not caring as much (in a Zen-ish way) can bring more joy back into your process and you’ll stumble onto a lot of interesting new things. So to Jesse – keep it up, a lot of us are here with you. And thanks again Chris for the engaging conversations as always. On to Part 2!

Reply

Leave a Comment

Previous post:

Next post: